This week on the podcast we are sharing a convo with me and fellow podcaster, Laura Max Rose. Laura is a mama of 2 little girls and we discuss the REAL topics about the working vs. SAHM choice. Laura shares her struggle about this decision and we go all into this very relevant topic. Enjoy!
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About Randi Rubenstein
Randi Rubenstein helps parents with a strong-willed kiddo become a happier family and enjoy the simple things again like bike rides and beach vacays.
She’s the founder of Mastermind Parenting, host of the Mastermind Parenting podcast, and author of The Parent Gap. Randi works with parents across the U.S.
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You’re listening to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast with Randi Rubenstein episode one 12,
My name’s Randi Rubenstein and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast where we believe when your thoughts grow the conversations in your home flood.
Well, hi guys. I wanted to share an interview that I did on another podcast with Laura Max Rose and she was asking me she about being a stay at home mom versus a working mom as a mom, herself with two little girls, she’s gone back and forth between being a full-time stay at home, full-time working. And if you are listening to this episode in real time with all things COVID and mandatory shelter in place, directives from our government, you may be finding yourself a full-time working at a mom.
0 (1m 7s):
Who’s also staying at home. So I think that this is a timely episode, even though we did record it before the pandemic and all things COVID-19. And I just think that this is such a, a, an area where so many moms struggle. Like I had a mom one time asked me if she said, just love with me, which kids turned out the best. So we discuss that in this episode and we go way more in depth than I did in a prior episode where I discuss that. And so I’m hoping that this we’ll help you in terms of what your decisions are, where you find yourself right now.
0 (1m 54s):
And most importantly, to help you really relieve yourself of any guilt you have as a stay at home mom or a working mom or a full-time working mom. Who’s also staying at home with their kids. Now ’cause, you may feel like there’s never enough time. You’re not doing a great job at either task. And I just find that when you fight, when you feel so Meyer down in that guilt, it really that’s the most exhausting thing. Like we’re so capable of so much, and we are going to accomplish so much. But when we have those ruminating thoughts and making us feel guilty, making us feel like we’re sort of sucking in everything, that’s where the real exhaustion comes from.
0 (2m 42s):
So you’re doing amazing. You’ve got this, we’re going to hopefully relieve some of those swirling thoughts. If you feel like I’m speaking to you and I’m, and I just want to celebrate you in whatever choice that you make in terms of being a stay at home mom or a working mom. So I hope this is helpful.
2 (3m 4s):
You have a podcast on stay at home versus working Moms. This has been personally for me, I would say 80% of the agony of my first year of being a mother was caused by this question, which is better because I had a working mom and it was super important to me to be more present for my child. And I ended up swinging the pendulum like way in the other direction into a situation that just didn’t really work for me. And I was unhappy and I felt guilty all the time. And then with my second, I had more of a resource. I have a larger, it was a home, a larger space.
2 (3m 45s):
I was more comfortable. It was, she was a very easy baby, if you will, it was easier to just be at home in the beginning. And I sort of interpreted that as, okay. Like I can be a stay at home mom now. And again, as she began to get older, I realized, you know, I do need something else to put my energy into, or I start to lose my mind a little bit. I’m still always finding my rhythm around this, but you do have a podcast episode where you answer the question, which one is better. And you even say like, all my friends don’t kill me for what I’m about to say, but I didn’t listen to it because I want you to share that with us now. I’m like, what did I say in it?
2 (4m 26s):
So you don’t even remember. I mean, I don’t even remember what it is
0 (4m 29s):
The most. I mean, I really, my podcast is pretty unscripted and I love that. Yeah, it sounds,
2 (4m 36s):
Yeah. That’s a great message. By the way. ’cause you have like over a hundred episodes and so many people ask me about like when, or how do I start a podcast? And I’m like, seriously, just start like, use your voice notes on your phone and find some theme music on audio jingle. And I’m like, Oh, just put it together and do it. Well, I don’t know about this and I don’t know that. And it’s like, just start, it doesn’t have to be scripted, but I guess if you were to answer the question organically, now you can have a whole new way. I bet it’ll match your last answer.
0 (5m 1s):
Lovely. I have this, I have a, one of the women on my team, Lindsey. And she has created our content library in our community where she goes through like all my coaching calls. And she literally like pulls out clips so that we can kind of organize it by, by subject matter. So sometimes she’ll like, she’ll say she’ll like, say something to me. And I’m like, Oh, that’s I love the way.
2 (5m 27s):
Yeah. You just said that she was like, I’m an expert, I think.
0 (5m 30s):
And listening to two and a half years of coaching calls, creating a content library. Those were words from your mouth. I’m like, all right.
2 (5m 36s):
They said that she was like, yeah, that way I was like, does that make me obnoxious? Read my own Instagram captions, like old. And I’m like, Oh, but like, I, I came home with that are out there. All right. So yeah, I, yeah. Anyway, well, I did it. I will tell you my book, you’re writing a book. Has it? It hasn’t been released it, you know, I have a book out. I’m
0 (5m 58s):
Just, I’m just starting to write An that, that nice framework that I just taught on the last episode is going to be my next book, which it turns out as sort of a prequel to the book that I ever already wrote called the parent gap. So no, I have had a book published. The parents that have the parent gaps has been out since like 2017.
2 (6m 16s):
Yeah. So I’d been retroactively listening to your podcast. So I was listening to one saying it was coming out soon. That’s why,
0 (6m 21s):
Yeah. It’s been it’s it’s been out for a while. So I’m wait. So what was the point of the working mom and stay home mom? So I, I think that it’s interesting. I had a mom and she was exactly where you are. Yeah. And she had, she was, you know, fortunate
2 (6m 43s):
Enough for you are working with you are not
0 (6m 45s):
Your own, who is fortunate and a mom and my community, but she was fortunate enough. She was fortunate enough to have the luxury to choose. Okay. Because a lot of people aren’t like, you know, they’re like, Oh, it must be nice. And she was like, just level with me, like, which kids turn out better. Oh. And I need to hear that. And I said, It the kids that turned out the best are the ones that have the mothers that are living their best truest life. So if that means, Oh, go ahead.
2 (7m 25s):
Just like in the happiest person in the whole world here, I mean, I can give it a perfect answer.
0 (7m 31s):
I can tell you, like, you know, and they say it like that old saying happy wife, happy life, which is sort of sexist in gross.
2 (7m 39s):
But like, there’s also something to that. And it’s true. Like I both directions. So it doesn’t have to just go to a happy wife, happy life commentary. But like, when I think almost especially women are living their best life and doing what they really want to be doing. Everyone is happier. Yeah.
0 (7m 56s):
Yes. We set up, you know, it goes back to the last episode when I talk about being in the pack leader. Yeah. So we set the tone. It taught, you said it, it starts at the top and it trickles down. Yes. So if you’re a stay at home mom, because you are like, okay, I swore I was going to be this kind of parent because I wanted my mom to be more present when I was a kid. And so I was going to grow up and be the super present, engaged room mom and host all the things and, and be the head of the girl scout troupe or whatever it is. And so we have all of these dreams and visions and, and then you come into it and you find yourself like terrible at hosting the party’s.
0 (8m 39s):
That was me. She’s raising her. I mean, I was a stay-at-home mom who was sort of like, okay, I will sign up to be the room mom. Okay. I will sign up to host the party Ocala. And now that I’m running a company, I’m the first person to tell you, you do not want me covering details. Like I am not your thing. I’m a terrible hostess. I am, I am. I’m terrible at like feeding people on a large scale, putting together the details, planning ahead of time, sending emails. Like I have a crazy amounts of emails in my inbox. I’m not organized. I have other things that are super in my wheel house that is not.
0 (9m 23s):
And then I used to joke. I was like, maybe I need to get a job so I could hire an assistant because I like, I don’t really have a reason to have an assistant, but I’m kind of terrible. Like I knew it
2 (9m 33s):
Do that. I was terrible with all the details. So
0 (9m 37s):
I would sign up for things. ’cause I thought like, Oh, like, why wouldn’t I, I signed up for this role and it never lit me up. I didn’t feel particularly good at it. And I had a sense of dread in my body when the teacher would tell me, okay, well, you just need to coordinate this party and send these emails and find how, like, I, if you have the sense of dread in your body, I call it the straight jacket feeling. And I write about it in my book. So it’s your body. Your body is always a whispering to you. So if your thinking about all of the things that you do as a stay-at-home mom, or that would come from being a stay-at-home mom or working parents, either one, and you feel a sense of dread in your body, that is your body telling you no.
0 (10m 25s):
Do less of that and more of something else.
2 (10m 28s):
Okay. So, so my body, what I didn’t know
0 (10m 31s):
To listen, but my body was always whispering that I hated all those things. And what I finally came to was, and how I ended up being at a volunteer in the classroom, like going in hearing the kids read or going on a field trip and then ultimately training teachers and helping them with classroom management is because I’m a, I like to engage with people and have real conversations. And kids are super honest in literal, especially when they’re a little kids. So what I learned really early on was it’s super fun for me to actually be with the kids and be with the teachers. So if I volunteer in that way, I’m not the party thrower.
0 (11m 14s):
I’m not the gala chair. Like, I don’t know. Don’t ask me to go get auction items.
2 (11m 19s):
Oh my God. Yeah. I know that’s not my forte
0 (11m 21s):
Either. I don’t have me figuring out menus. Like I’m an eat to live person. I don’t like, I’m terrible at that.
2 (11m 28s):
So, so I would
0 (11m 30s):
Just say, you got to check in with yourself and if there’s anything I can leave you with, its, if it feels like a straight jacket, the thought of doing whatever task, if something feels like a straight jacket, if it feels like a straight jacket sitting in a carpool line and picking your kids up everyday, if it feels like a straight jacket, schlepping them to swimming lessons and getting all the bag together and doing all the things, then chances are you are, you’ve got to find the work outside the home that feels meaningful and impactful and purposeful because this is what I tell in my mom community within Mastermind, Parenting, I’m really proud of the fact that I, I won’t curse on here, but I say that there’s no BS, but I used the real word.
0 (12m 19s):
Yeah. It’s the only female community, mostly female community. We have dads too, where there’s no Working versus stay at home mom divide.
2 (12m 29s):
And there is, Ooh, there’s a divide. We have zero
0 (12m 32s):
Divided. Let me tell you something. We have a fluent stay at home moms who are, you know, maybe not even avid volunteers there, I’ll go to yoga and I’m in the restaurant and I hire, I have coffee with friends and I love it. Yeah. And then I have moms who are physicians and, and lots of business owners and, and are out there just grinding away. And there is a zero competition or ego involved because we realize we are all so similar. If we’re living our best life, we don’t feel the need to do the whole stupid at one upmanship.
0 (13m 13s):
Right. And, and we’re all kind of, you know, sourcing each other. What would you do with this? And what would you do with that? And the truth of the matter is there’s plenty of stay-at-home moms who have all day, every day that they could be present and engaged with their kids. And they’re not, they’re scrolling on Facebook or Instagram and, and very busy and they’re not. And there’s moms who are, I mean, I talk about my physician Moms cause some of my physician moms are my biggest action takers. I mean, they’ll literally be on a coaching call and they’re like, okay guys, they’re paging me from the AU. Or I got to go and they spend an hour and a half with their kids every day at the end of a long day and their soup they’re present and engaged for that hour and a half, like nobody’s business.
0 (13m 59s):
And they have rich relationships. So it’s not quantity, it’s quality of life.
2 (14m 4s):
Right. But there are some, this is something that is so freeing for me to understand is that they’re really are, there are women who stay home with their kids and they love it. And it is what they really want to be doing all the time. Like maybe there on their phones a little bit or a little bit too much. But like for the most part, it’s genuinely what fills them up. Like they feel purpose from that. And like to understand that that is not me and that when I was doing that, I kept thinking there was something wrong with me that I didn’t feel own like full from only doing that. That gives me so much joy, but it’s not the only place where I derive joy. And I found that I was doing things because I felt like I should be doing them. Right. I also was trying to like earn my stripes and my household.
2 (14m 48s):
Like I cleaned, like I Windex all the glass in the today and like my husband could care less about the glasses and that’s why I married him because I’m not a wind exer, like I’m not really that great at cleaning. But all of a sudden I really wanted him to value me for those types of things. And he was like, thank you. But like he can’t even tell. And it creates all of this unnecessary tension because I’m trying to convince myself that I know that this is what I’m supposed to be doing because I do feel like I’m in a straight jacket. So the only way like myself for that feeling was like, well, I’m doing the good hard work and this is going to pay off. And I think the hardest thing to here is like, listen, if you do love doing this, it’s wonderful.
2 (15m 30s):
And to be that present with your kid, it’s great. But it’s actually not going to make that much of a difference if you’re sitting here miserable and you can’t even really pay that much attention to your kid because you feel like you have to be here. Now, there are women who are stay at home moms out of necessity. Like it’s really expensive to send a kid to daycare and going to work. The price would cancel itself out or what have you, or it would be more expensive. And it just as a family decision for them to stay home and like, I empathize with that, but I feel like those, there are, these communities probably have stay at home moms that kind of convinces women that like, that’s where they’re supposed to be. Or like that’s the only option.
2 (16m 10s):
And I think you can be in that situation and still know that it’s not like there’s more around, there’s more on the other side of the rainbow. Like your kids are going to get older, they’re going to start school and it’s okay that you don’t find all of your happiness doing this. And I think even just that knowledge, like, even if you don’t have the option to go out and go back to work again, if that’s what would make you happy, just knowing like, it’s okay, if this doesn’t completely fill you up,
0 (16m 35s):
I think it’s just, self-worth, you know, I think it’s having this conversation of why do I need to be defined by what I do? Right. Right. Like, can we just feel valuable for being a human being instead of feeling like we need to be a human doing. Yeah.
2 (16m 54s):
But there’s so much of that in motherhood like that affluent mom, who’s doing yoga and shopping and having fun with our friends all day. Like she’s just as valuable as the one who’s at home. Who’s like scraping away and doing all of this stuff. Like we just have to be here and like do our best. And we’re not judged ultimately by how much we do. And there is such a, there’s such a misconception, I think, around that. That’s making so many of us really unhappy.
0 (17m 20s):
I think it’s when we’re true to ourselves. When we, when we aren’t, if, if, if we like, like, I have a really good friend who I have a couple of really good friends and it’s like, they’re happy in their lives and it doesn’t need, they don’t want it to be complicated. They, they don’t aspire to work outside the home. Like I have this, one of my, really my bestie bestie, bestie, like we just love each other so much. And she moved away 10 years and then she moved back. So it’s just like a honeymoon all the time. And we’ll say it. We were like, we’re like, we’re so lucky to have each other. Cause it was just that unconditional friendship.
0 (18m 0s):
And she’ll say to me, when we first started, we coming from our girls are now 18, but we became friends when they were three. So we have been good friends for 15 years. And, and so we we’re stay at home mom’s before shit for five years before she moved away and we would drop the girl’s at preschool and we would go walk and we would talk for a million times a day and you know, and we love each other. And then she moved away and now she’s back. And like, I’m doing some stuff and, and she’ll say, what have you done recorded for podcasts episodes today made dinner for your family and beloved. But you know, you’re like, she’ll do, she’ll do this like a little beating up thing. And I’m like, Whoa.
0 (18m 44s):
She moved back here. She’s a 93 year old father in a wheelchair. She goes to lunch with him three times a week. Wow. She is this kind of nucleus of her entire life. Her, she has got two brothers. Her mom passed away. When she was young. She is an amazing mother to her children. She is just this like, like this beautiful human who takes care of people. When you’re out in a conversation with her, she would never look over your shoulder to see if anybody better was walking up. She is present. She is just a beautiful human. And I’m like, you are not allowed to undermine the work you are doing in the world.
0 (19m 28s):
You move back here. Do you know that you are making your dad’s last years here on earth. So precious. Like you have prioritized him. Like I haven’t seen very many daughters ever Do yeah. I can say that. I would be you, you know? And so don’t act like me recording some podcasts episodes and you know, doing X, Y, and Z, it trumps what your, no, I kind of hit it
2 (19m 52s):
Is that I hear that from, I get that feedback from people a lot and that I do a lot, but I’m like, I really honestly it’s call me selfish, but I do all that stuff because it makes me happier. Right. And that’s the only reason why I’m doing it and I’m not doing it to prove a point to anybody I’m doing it so I can stay sane. Like I need to have a creative outlet. And I also know that when I was sitting in a home and I was cleaning all day, like all my creative energy was going into that. It’s kind of like creative to organize stuff. And by the time I was done, I like it didn’t have any juice left for this stuff that I really love. So I think it’s just like figuring out, we put so much pressure on ourselves to just be doing everything all at once. And especially with social media, there are some of this added pressure.
0 (20m 32s):
Yeah. It’s call the compare and despair. That’s when she was going. I was like, no, no, no, this is not happening on my watch. Right? There is no compare and despair here. Like you’re not doing that. That’s not who we are. You’re living amazing life. I’m living an amazing life. We get to enjoy it through each other. It’s a beautiful thing. There’s no need to tear yourself down or to make yourself feel like your self-worth is defined by, you know, having some kind of impressive resume or approving to the world that you have value.
2 (21m 9s):
A response really perfectly answers the question of why, like there are so many articles you could find in either direction of whether or not a stay at home mom or a working mom is best. And the working mom, like everyone always feels like what they did was best if they end up having happy kids. But the reason for that is that they were happy doing what they were doing. So before I go on, I want to ask, I’ve got a few questions from some audience members who sent me these last night when I asked my followers, if they have any questions for a parenting coach. So one of them wanted to know, what are you doing? Your kid is mid tantrum and can’t hear you or calm down. I want it to be supportive of feelings, but I also don’t know how to get her to calm down enough to process. So I have a feeling this has probably like a two or three-year-old, I’m just gonna guess, but even if it wasn’t, how would you answer that question?
0 (21m 52s):
Okay. So whenever I hear the word, the word Get. Mm. And so I always an indicator that there might be more control on the scene. Then we tend to need, we realized. So ’cause, you can’t get anyone to do anything. All right. Like that’s a first and foremost. And, and when you try to get them to do things, it’s quickly going to turn to manipulation. Okay. I’m going to go back to the last episode when I talked about the state, the obvious tool. So when you have it, so when we go through the nice framework, then I solution. Okay. And when we get to the I, they investigate all behavior is communication.
0 (22m 35s):
So when you have a child that’s in meltdown mode there in the lowest part of their brain, their, in that state of fight or flight, they can not hear you or think clearly. And the goal is, is if you can communicate effectively with the PAC leadership and the empathy, if it helps them to move up in their brain, because as humans, we co-regulate with each other. So its sort of like, you know, when somebody yawns in New York too, so we have mirror neurons and we can’t help, but like, like the vibe off of each other. Right. Okay. So what happens when we have a kid that’s out of control, we usually vibe off of them by feeling hysterical.
0 (23m 19s):
Like we, we are and we want to reverse that. Right? Okay. So the way we reverse it is we go through that framework. We go off behaviors, communication. Q-tip Q-tip Q-tip this is not about me. This is not about me. This is not about me. And then when we move in to the pack leadership and the empathy go to the state, the obvious tool, which is you just state. Exactly like you’re face is red. Your voice is screaming. Body is your fists or pounding on the ground. You seem really mad. Yeah.
2 (23m 51s):
Use it as an opportunity to teach them about their emotions.
0 (23m 54s):
You want to help them to move up in their brain because anything you say to them when they’re in that state of fight or flight.
2 (24m 0s):
Yeah. They can hear you. Right. You’re wasting your breath. Okay.
0 (24m 4s):
So the goal is is that if you, you know, if you want actually teach someone new skills and help them get through something so that you stop having this Groundhog day, moment of just the same problems over and over and over again, they need to be in their thinking brain so they can hear you. Okay. So empathy is like the secret sauce that moves them up in their brain. When you think about when you are like super upset and you call a friend and you just start seeing red, you’re pissed. Yeah. And they’re like, Oh sister, I am so glad you call. I’ve been there. I don’t have the answers for you, but you seem super upset. And I want you to know I was exactly where you are yesterday.
0 (24m 45s):
I got all day. You tell me, just vent, talk to help me. I’m here for you. So when somebody like I get it, I’ve been there too. And I’m going to hold space for you. I’m right here with you. I got all day to stay on the phone. I got nothing going on. You just vent away sister.
2 (25m 5s):
It’s just about giving them, like it’s not about ending the tantrum. Like the tantrums tantrums do not last forever. And it’s just about kind of being there for it. Right.
0 (25m 13s):
Well, it’s a, it’s a way, it’s the same thing. So if you’re in that place of your seeing red and somebody shows up for you like that and how does it make you feel?
2 (25m 20s):
Yeah. Yeah. It makes me feel like, Oh, I’m going to be okay. Supporting you.
0 (25m 24s):
Yeah. Like I feel like, Oh I can. All right. Okay. You know? And by the end, a lot of the times that person, if it’s like a really skillful person, you’re like, I feel so much better. And the person’s like, I didn’t even say anything.
2 (25m 37s):
Yeah. They are just, they were there. They listened to you. They were just there. That’s brilliant. I love that.
0 (25m 41s):
So when we state the obvious, when our kids are in that state of fight or flight and there are going like screaming, crazy melt down and we just state the obvious, you seem really upset in rebring that your face looks like this, your fists are like this. We help them to start moving up in their brain because it’s, it’s like we, we make them aware of themselves, not in a shameful way, but just in a noticing way. And then when they start to move up in their brain and you’re just there holding space and then you’ll notice they start to whine. Okay. So now their move, the wine and it up the tantrum becomes a wine. And then you’re like, Oh my gosh, wait, I can almost understand you when your voice is mine.
0 (26m 23s):
I can hear you. This is important. I wanted to know you are so upset. Tell me, well, you’re like, Oh, okay, wait, tell me so I can hear you. Yeah, because this is really important. So that low and slow voice is super effective and grounding pack leadership. And so I took that breath. I didn’t say take a breath. Cause nobody, when they’re out of control it, nobody wants you to tell them to breathe unless you want to get punched in the face. Right. I need
2 (26m 58s):
To remember that. So I’m guilty of that for sure.
0 (26m 60s):
So you take a deep breath, this child who you are just drawn attention to what’s going on with them. So you’ve empathized by stating the obvious they’re moving up in their brain that are now whining. Your You take a deep breath. Their mirror neuron kicks in and they start to kind of breathe two. And then you are talking low and slow, which is super grounding. And it basically says, I’m holding space. I got you. I got all day for you. And your like, this is super important. Tell me, tell me what was going on. Well, you’re almost there. I can almost understand you match my voice so I can really hear you.
0 (27m 40s):
I can tell this as super important. And then they tell you what it is. And then you’re like, Ahhh, you empathize. And then you’re just state the obvious Mor. Oh, so you wanted the red lollipop and the doctor gave you the green one and you were super disappointed. Oh, that’s what it was. And they’re like, Oh, like you had your hopes on the red one. Yeah. Like you’re in a lot of times just like that friend who didn’t give you the answers, they just help you understand how you feel like you’re just like, well, you hide your hopes on that. Red one has a red, your favorite flavor. Yeah.
0 (28m 20s):
In green kind of taste like, Ugh,
2 (28m 24s):
Have such an interesting revelation that was around that recently a few days ago. My, my oldest daughter is very, very attached to mommy. And whenever daddy comes home, when she is with mommy, she gets mean to daddy. This is like not necessarily new. She’s kind of always been like this. I don’t want to say hi to you. I don’t want to give you a hug. Even before he asked. And it’s always really hurt his feelings and it’s uncomfortable and annoying and frustrating that she does that we have tried different things around it. You know, it’s important to say like, but obviously we haven’t figured out what it is. That’s really bothering her. So the other day, and this wasn’t my idea at all, my husband stopped when she was doing that. And I was kind of horrified. Like I was just thinking, this is so unacceptable. You cannot say this stuff to him. And he stopped me before I got in to that.
2 (29m 6s):
And he said, Selma. Did you think that daddy was going to take mommy away from you when he came in here? And she said, yes, I don’t want mommy to leave. And he, you know, when he walks in the room, I give him my attention and she obviously notices that, which I hadn’t even thought of. And he goes, I’m not taking mommy. I just came in here to see both of you. Mommy is going to stay in here with you. I just wanted to say hi. And she goes, I’m sorry, daddy. I love you very much. This has now happened two times in a row where she’s like, seen him have that reaction and he’s stopped and said like, I’m not going to take this personally. Q-tip cause we’ve been taking this personally for three and a half.
0 (29m 44s):
Yeah. So he MMP. So he investigated. Yeah, he Q-tips. Yeah. And then he communicated with empathy, which is basically, he said, I see your perspective here. Let me say what I think your perspective is. And its sort of like, well, you know, when you read a blog post or something and you’re like, Oh my gosh, that is that person in my head. Right. You just feel like they so get it. Yeah. So she, he said he guessed and he was right. And so immediately she felt connected to him cause she was like, exactly. Yeah. And he’s like, yeah, well guess what? I just want to say, I have both of you. And then she apologizes and appreciates that he understands her and sees her perspective.
0 (30m 28s):
Yeah. It’s amazing.
2 (30m 30s):
I think we’re, I get wrapped up so much as a parent is like, she is now set all of these things to him that are not socially acceptable in a normal sentence. Like get out of here. I don’t want to talk to you. And I’m always kind of focused on correcting that, but what I’m assuming, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, is that yeah. I can go back after and say, you know, next time daddy comes in here and you feel that way. You know, maybe you can just know he’s just coming in here to say hi, and if you don’t want him in the room, that’s OK. But maybe we could find some other words to describe that because the ones that you’re using are, are hurting daddy’s feelings or whatever it is. I’m also kind of come to find that like these things sort of work themselves out, the less threatened, she feels the less likely she is to say stuff like that.
2 (31m 10s):
And maybe if I focus more on that, like the rest of it kind of works out.
0 (31m 15s):
Yeah. I mean I think a couple of things, number one, we got a connect before we correct at all.
2 (31m 20s):
I love that Elizabeth Miller is a psychotherapist who is on the show and she said the same thing and I have so many messages. Oh my God. I’m like putting that on my mirror. Yeah.
0 (31m 29s):
Are you correct? You got to connect before you correct. And, and the other thing is, is a model, the behavior you seek. So what you focus on grows if you focus on how she’s behaving in an inappropriate way with daddy and blah, blah, blah. You’re just going to get more of that behavior because actually three-year-olds, they don’t care. Like she’s already admitted. She wants as much of mommy’s attention as possible. And so she, she wants as much a mommy is attention as possible. So she doesn’t care if it’s negative or positive attention, she all the attention is attention.
0 (32m 9s):
So if she be so it’s actually, this could be a pattern that has been created that helps her to get a lot of mommy’s attention.
2 (32m 17s):
’cause all of a sudden, I’m like, are you kidding me? Yeah. Right. So, so we, we were,
0 (32m 21s):
They actually do this where we will put a bunch of focus on a certain negative behavior. And we accidentally reinforce that negative behavior because what we focus on grows. So they learn it three. Oh. Cause you know, there’s been studies that are like, kids learn kids here are the word know exponentially more than they hear the word. Yes. The things that they are doing. Right. So they learn a lot of times at the age of three, there’s a lot of bang for their buck when they have these misbehaviors. So she wants it as much of a mommy’s attention that she can possibly get out and shoot. And daddy comes home, which usually means now she’s going to have to split mom’s behavior with dad.
0 (33m 4s):
But she’s learned this interesting tool for, for getting more of mom’s attention. Even when daddy gets home by just being mean to daddy and saying all these things that are sort of more mortifying to mommy. So why wouldn’t she keep doing that? Right. Interesting. Yeah. So that’s what she is doing. And so what I would do is when she comes home and she says those things, as much as she says those things, I would focus on your husband and disrupt the pattern by stop. Like don’t even put outsource the response to him. No, I would just put, focus the attention on him.
0 (33m 46s):
Yeah. She’s like get out of here and you’re like, honey, I missed you. Tell me everything about your day. We were just doing day. Get out of here. OK. If you wanna be in here with me and daddy were going to be talking about our day, then kind words need to happen. I’m talking to daddy. Now we would love for you to join us. Honey, tell me more and focus hyper-focused on him. The first couple of times you do this, she is going to have a meltdown. She is going to freak out. Okay. When she freaks out, I would ignore her as much as possible and continue your conversation with him. ’cause we really want to disrupt this pattern.
0 (34m 26s):
We want to disrupt the pattern of, she behaves this way. We dropped daddy and attend to her. Ah, yeah. So focus, focus, focus on him. And then as soon as she calms it down and be like, Oh, are you comfortable? Will come and join us. We would love let’s all catch up on our day together. I wanna hear all about with daddy to it. And I bet daddy wants to hear about what we did. I’m going to tell him about it unless you have a better way of telling him. And then it becomes the three of you. And since your husband really gets it, like he already intuitively knew to kind of do that. I think I would stop giving her so much airtime with this pattern.
2 (35m 3s):
Okay. Interesting. I love these responses. So speaking of husbands, the next question that I got, it’s a question I’ve had many times and I hear all the time, which is what if my parenting style is different from my husband’s. My spouse is okay. You do, you, you do you. Yeah, totally love it.
0 (35m 22s):
I think again, we model the behavior. We seek for everyone, everyone for everyone. And no one likes control our kids. Don’t like when we try to control them, our spouses, don’t when we try to control them.
2 (35m 39s):
I also think this could be this single call, like the largest cause for like a marital strife. And the first year after having a baby, it’s like, I think whatever, for whatever reason, especially us as women, we feel very strongly that like our spouses should be doing things the exact same way that we do them. And like, it feels so terrifying. Like they don’t want to listen to us when we give them instructions about what they should be doing. And we start to think that they’re not, you know, that somebody else would be doing it that a different way, that they are not doing it the right way. We get really critical towards them. It, it, it makes a cycle continue.
0 (36m 12s):
Well. Yeah. And we get so, you know, look that primal part of it, especially as women, we’re like mama bears. Yeah. We are. We’re Moms, I’m super guilty of that. I mama bears. And what I will say is, and this is going to be a little sexist, but men, you know, if you bring that primal part of the data equation, like as the cave dad, right. There are a very solution oriented.
2 (36m 45s):
Yeah. So I don’t think this is sexist. I just have to say that because you just thought it was going to be sexist. And then I said, it’s okay. And I’m like, Oh, I said, it’s like, okay, to be sexist. That’s not even what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that I am, so I don’t think that this is sexist. What you’re saying. I think it’s so valuable because I think that men and women bring, we are equal, but we aren’t, we bring things biologically, we bring different things to the table and that’s a biological. Right. And if we could have more, if we could stop, expecting to be the same, we would be so much happier. I mean, I just, yeah,
0 (37m 16s):
I agree. I agree. And I, I think that, you know, I think that that since men are so kind of naturally wired as problem solvers, what, or, you know, if you think about it, like if you have a hard day, I know many women relate to this where they will say like, Oh, the worst day and your husband, would it be like, quit that job? Like, why are you doing that podcasting stuff anyway, if it’s stressing you out for get it right. Right. Or that’s how they kind of operate. Right. And you’re like, I don’t want to quit it. I love it. I just wanted to vent about it. Right. And so, and so they’re just super solution oriented.
0 (37m 57s):
And I think like I use the story. I’ve used the story several times where my husband, years and years ago, I remember hearing him from the other room. He was like helping one of the kids get on their pajamas. And he was like, do you want to put your right foot or your left foot? And so he was using two positive choices, you know, which is a tool that I teach all the time. And I’m on the only Parenting person that teaches it. It’s just, you don’t care whether they choose the right foot or their left foot,
2 (38m 26s):
But it’s what shoe knot do you want to put your shoes on? It’s a, which one?
0 (38m 30s):
Yeah. You don’t care if they choose the red or the green at all. You don’t care if they put the right of the left foot either. One’s but it’s super empowering, especially for like three and four year olds. And so I heard him, you know, doing the PJ’s, so you want to put your right foot on your left foot. And so I heard him using the tools and the other room and he comes back in and I’m like, I saw it. I heard that, that time it went pretty smoothly over there. What was going on? He’s like, I don’t know. I was just doing what I’ve heard you say. And I was like, I was like, Whoa. I was like, what, what, what made it? He is like, well, it seems like you always get out out of there. And half of the time that it takes me. So I just figured I better just do what she’s doing.
0 (39m 10s):
Cause it seems to work. And so I could have tried to convince him all day long, two positive choices. It’s really important for their spirit that will empower them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it’ll teach our daughters that they can have a voice and they will grow up and they will never have a boy take advantage of them because they’ve always had a choice in the world. Are all of these things. Now I could go because I can go on that feminist soap box and then some, or I can just freaking do it and model it. And he’s like, huh, I really want to get them to bed so I can go and watch what I want to watch, you know, or whatever. And so he just was like that worked. Okay, I’m doing that. So I say, you do, you don’t try to convince, just do it.
0 (39m 52s):
And once you start getting results, they’ll follow suit.
2 (39m 57s):
That’s so freeing to hear you say that because I haven’t read a book or heard anything that says that I should be doing that. Like you said, you do U but after a while I kind of realized like, yeah, I’m just gonna do what I wanna do. And I’m gonna stop nagging You cause its making my life miserable. And I also realized that as much as I think I bring everything good to the table, there are so many things like that thing that he did the other day with Selma, like is this, you know, when he was able to level with her about why he, didn’t, why she didn’t want him in the room, that is an instinct I would not have had when I stopped nagging him. I’m able to see what he actually brings to the table. He has about 500 times more patients than I do.
2 (40m 40s):
Yes. His bedtime’s take like four hours longer than mine, but like I don’t want them to take that long cause I don’t have time for that. He does. So I kind of see things more from that perspective, like were not supposed to be, she doesn’t have to Laura as, as her mom and she has both of us, but we do learn from each other and I think that’s really cool. So next question from the audience, how do you start teaching right and wrong from the get-go I think this plays into a lot of the things that you and I we’ve already talked about, but how do you, how do you teach those values? Like initially I think a lot of parents have really little kids get really concerned about that because you don’t even know that you’re
0 (41m 17s):
The number one. You model the behavior You sake again. Yeah, yeah. Model. Just do it. Like Moms wonder why their daughter’s get wrapped up in tea, you know, in a middle school drama. And then you find out the Moms has been a part of this exclusive module on, you know, blah, blah, blah. And the kid has been hearing all of this exclusive behavior. Oh yeah. You know, they are, they are watching us there a long time. They’re listening all the time. So if you want your kids to be kind and to know right from wrong, number one, follow the nice solution.
0 (41m 57s):
Yeah. You know, model the behavior you seek. It’s never gonna, if you yelling at your kids to listen, to not be violent, to stop hitting and your using aggression to overpower their aggression, you’re accidentally reinforcing the exact behaviors you want to do away with. Yes, exactly. It’s like the definition of insanity or are modeling it for them. Yes. So model the behaviors you seek, the other thing is, is, and this doesn’t come naturally for us. Language has powerful words have meaning. And so I always say, come from a place of yes. So its, you know, if you see a kid running by the pool, you’re going to yell, don’t run, don’t run naturally instead of walking feet.
0 (42m 40s):
Right. And what I have found is you can retrain your brain to ask for the behaviors you want versus focusing on the behaviors. You don’t want to
2 (42m 51s):
Like listening ears, walking feet, gentle
0 (42m 54s):
Hands, like, like just get that into your vocabulary because what you focus on grows. So if you’re constantly telling them what not to do. Yeah. They’re just going to do more of that. Yeah. If you can, frankly, little tiny kids have trouble with contractions. So when you say like don’t run, don’t run, they hear like Oooh run and run. And it’s like, don’t think about red car right now. Don’t think about
2 (43m 17s):
It. This hearing or think about red car that says interesting.
0 (43m 20s):
Yes. So there’s a lot of science behind that, which is you retraining yourself to come from yes. Language and, and asking for the behaviors you seek.
2 (43m 33s):
I’ve had so many, I’ve had two people actually come up to both of my daughters before when maybe one of them’s being a little bit kinda feisty, but it’s nothing that I would even so much as I can acknowledge. And they’ll say, Oh, don’t fight with each other. I don’t think my kids have ever heard the word fight come out of my mouth. But it’s so interesting to see like that that’s where so many of us go, right? Like she doesn’t even know that that’s what she’s doing. Right. She’s literally just like being kind of a feisty with her sister. And I see the wheels turn in her head when an adult says that she’s like, I could see her, like I’m fighting. And it’s just that it’s this new like identity almost that she takes on that. She is like a fighter. She’s like somebody who is doing something bad.
2 (44m 14s):
And I totally see what your saying.
0 (44m 17s):
Yeah. Like in a way. And that’s the hard part. Like other people come up and look, this is when your mama bear and you focus on your own kids. So somebody comes up and says, don’t fight. And somebody comes up and you go, these, you guys are two. Sister’s that love to play in some, even though we’re a girls, sometimes we play a little bit rough. We’re very respectful of each other. What’s what’s our word, sister. What’s our word. If it gets too rough, what’s the word for it. It gets too rough. So you have like a code word. And so you ignore that other adult, but you basically just like when my daughter was little, I had a thing where this was another, this was a mistake I made where I went overboard with it where I didn’t want my daughter to think ever that like her value is based on her outer appearance.
0 (45m 6s):
Oh yeah. So from the time she was a little bitty, if somebody would come up to her and talk about how pretty cause that’s what they do with a group of girls, whenever somebody would talk about how pretty she was or she is so tiny or whatever, I’d be like, Oh. And she runs really fast as she is really, you know, kinda went over with, with that, to the point that when she was like 13 or 14 and she was like, dude, you think I’m pretty?
2 (45m 30s):
I my mom had the same experience with her mom. Actually her, her mom would be like, well, she’s just really smart. She would always, she didn’t like people calling her daughter beautiful. And my mom ended up asking my grandmother that same question. So I actually, where I might have other instincts, otherwise when people call my daughter beautiful, I’m like, you’re so beautiful. I mean, cause I heard that, you know, growing up that like that was not the way to handle it, but I know I have so many, mom’s sort of tell me about telling their kids that, you know, immediately just jumping into like it’s about inner beauty and like just okay.
0 (46m 1s):
Yeah. Right. Like I like, I like math and science. She’s like, just let her enjoy the moment. We’re like somebody Skelly. She was like, she was like, dude, I think I’m pretty. And I was like gorgeous inside and out. She’s like, I know, I know you think I’m beautiful on the inside. I’m talking about the outside.
2 (46m 17s):
What do I look like to
0 (46m 18s):
Do? And I was like, I mean, this isn’t, it, it sort of a given she’s like, ah, I mean, I don’t know. Yeah. And, and so it was it’s it’s been a funny conversation over the years. Cause my husband, I love certain assessments. And so in the love languages, words of affirmation, I’m not high on his love language at all. Interesting. Yeah. So he literally has told me and my daughter like that, we’re pretty like never, that’s not his thing. So we were busting his chops recently. I just w I’m like whatever. And he was like, but y’all are pretty don’t you just know that don’t you just know, she’s like, it’s nice to hear it. Sometimes he’s like, but it’s just, you just sort of are, you know?
0 (46m 60s):
And so it’s been a hilarious conversation for us, but I’m like, no, I totally went over it. But that one, because I didn’t want you to be defined. I knew. And then she looked at pictures, I think it was right around her bat mitzvah. And she was looking at pictures from the, you know, the slideshows or whatever. And she was like, it was like, she has never really seen herself in. She was like, Oh, it was so cute. Yeah. She really could, like, she was like, I was really cute. Do people stop you and tell you I was cute all the time. I was like, yeah. And I always was like, and she’s runs really fast. And she is really smart. She knows how to read. And she was like, Oh God brother.
2 (47m 33s):
Or like so many people who can probably relate to what you just said. Yeah. So I can’t believe this is going to be our last question. It’s a composite question because I’ve just so loves talking to you. But I’m asking the best one that I think I have left, which is comes from your Instagram. Someone asks their three year old is out of control every single day. I’m yelling. What can I do? That’s not even my question. My question is actually for the parent who has that question, who’s listening to this. Who’s thinking, Oh my God, it’s too late. I yell at my kids every day. I’m so frustrated. I love my children, but I have, I’ve already done too much damage. Can’t start now. I’ve had this feeling so many times I have it with my youngest all the time that like I haven’t given her the kind of attention her big sister got it’s too late.
2 (48m 20s):
And she is turning one tomorrow. She doesn’t even have a whole year on the planet. What do you tell parents who think it’s too late?
0 (48m 26s):
Oh my gosh. It’s never too late. Like as humans. I mean I’m 49. If all of a sudden you did not look forward to your time. Thanks. Just all of a sudden somebody’s like in my life that I love came and was like, I want to do it differently. You know? I’d be like, okay, that’s not too late. It’s not too late. It’s never too late. And then
2 (48m 52s):
I think about what our kids see when they watch their parents change and evolve. Yes. Instead of thinking, my parents are never, they’re never going to change. They’re never going to grow. I’m stuck with this. Right. Right. How great to see like for kids to see us actually take an initiative to be better.
0 (49m 10s):
Yes. It’s like if we, if I heard somebody say that who has a three-year-old I hear it more with parents of teenagers.
2 (49m 19s):
And that’s a great question. What do you say to those parents? With teenagers?
0 (49m 22s):
You got a three-year-old or a one-year-old in, I mean, I still will say, gosh, I wish a special with my oldest son, I would have known how to attune more to him when he was a little teeny tiny baby. And then I remember like, I didn’t know what, I didn’t know. Yeah. There’s a, there’s a saying I heard an Oprah Winfrey recently. She was quoting a lot of people. Are your eyes light up to Toni Morrison? Quote. It’s my favorite go home. Well, this one is the, the, Oh, I love that when you are,
2 (49m 55s):
When your child walks in the room to your eyes light up. Yeah.
0 (49m 58s):
I love that one day. This was my Angelo saying when you know better, you do better. And I would say, I think when you feel better, you do better. Because I know a lot of parents who think they know better, but they haven’t yet realized how to feel better. So the parents that finds themselves in that triggered state yelling a lot, I would say you deserve compassion. You deserve too to get to find the resources and the tools to feel better. Because when you feel better, you won’t be the yelling parents, the yelling parent, it’s just a sign that there’s, that you deserve to feel better.
0 (50m 46s):
And you’re in a triggered state a lot and it’s for a reason. And so, you know, I actually was thinking about that when you know, better, you do better. Because I think that there’s plenty of parents like who listen to my podcast. Right. And they think they know better, but they don’t know how to help themselves out of that triggered state because it’s a process you have to really, you have to heal from some old stuff. You’ve got to know the whole, I’m fine. Why do I need to do it any differently? It’s like, are you really fine? Because if your screaming your head off like a lunatic on the rig, you’re not fine or something to figure out there. And, and you deserve to feel better because when you feel better, you won’t be screaming in your head
2 (51m 29s):
And then you’ll be happier and your kids will be happier. And, and it all comes down. I think to like self care, taking care of ourselves in basic ways, less than basic ways. But we’re so wired against that.
0 (51m 40s):
Right. But it starts with self compassion because you have to realize when I feel better, I’ll do better. And I, I, I’m finding myself yelling at like, if I beat myself up or I think it’s too late and I have a feeling of hopelessness, like that’s just me beating myself up and shaming myself and abusing myself. And if I’m already, you know, coming to this place of finding myself, getting triggered, finding myself, yelling, because I’m not feeling good. Why would I add to that cycle? Don’t I deserve more. So even just starting that conversation with yourself, that is the start of the self care movement, because that’s, self-compassion that saying being a human is messy business.
0 (52m 26s):
And you know what? I yell because I get triggered and I get triggered because there’s some unresolved old hurt within me and that hurt, deserves to heal. And we don’t talk about this stuff in our society because it sounds kind of like, you know, right. And it’s like, Oh, but the truth of the matter is every human wants to feel better. Yeah. We do.
2 (52m 50s):
Why we feel like that’s so weird to have to take care of ourselves in that way is because like it’s more normal and society to just push it under the rug or to act like, you know, none of that stuff actually.
0 (53m 1s):
Oh, is it a drink? I mean, I can tell you
2 (53m 5s):
No, there was a lot, I mean, I’m glad you brought that up because that is definitely the way I feel like we’re starting to cope with those types of feelings because it’s become so much more socially acceptable to do so that we are just like, it’s like a normal to kind of be an alcoholic. It’s becoming very normalized. And I don’t say that out of any type of judgment, actually whatsoever
0 (53m 30s):
For an addictive pot smoker, I would tell you, I can tell you how many people, because now it’s like, you can’t smell it. Right. I mean, I can tell you how many I, how many mom’s I have found out that are, and I’m not my kids make fun of me when I try to use the right terminology. Cause I’ll be like, you know, when they’re, Do when they are doing the Juul, which is now that I don’t do that because of the whole like lungs collapsing. But like, when I’m like, when your vaping the pot, they’re like, Oh, it’s not called the hot and it’s not the marijuana, the marijuana, but I can’t tell you how many people are inhaling and exhaling all or drinking, you know, waiting til five o’clock when they can start drinking that first glass of wine.
0 (54m 12s):
And that turns into a whole bottle night after night, this is more prevalent than we realize. And I say this with zero judgment whatsoever, I actually have super addictive tendencies. So it’s just our way of coping to, and allowing ourselves to feel better. Right. So, you know, I sort of hate the term self care because I think that it’s been made fluffy and commercialized and it’s, it’s not a face mask. It’s not, yeah, it can look it, I love a massage in a bubble bath, but it really like lets just start with self-compassion, which is I deserve to feel better.
0 (54m 52s):
And if I’m yelling at my kid or feeling out of control in my body, exhausted feelings of dread, like there’s something to heal from and to figure out and I deserve to feel better as a human. I deserve that.
2 (55m 8s):
Yeah. Looking at it that, from that perspective, instead of like, yeah, either there’s something wrong with me or this is something I have to do that I don’t want to be doing. I think it’s just like a much more compassionate view. But I do think more than more of us than we realized, like we’re not like we, we thought we were fine when we were kids, but like the way that things are now, like the pressure that’s on each of us individually, it’s also not really working either. We’re not really coping that. Well, if you look at the statistics and it’s like, Oh, I look out there though. And nobody else is taking time for themselves will like most other people who are really struggling, there’s a lot of struggle and like to take a step out and to be courageous and to decide, to take care of yourself and to honor yourself and to listen to yourself, it’s going to feel uncomfortable and it’s going to feel selfish and it’s going to feel strange because it’s completely the opposite of what we’ve been taught and what we’re seeing.
2 (55m 59s):
But if we want something different, you know, we have to do something different and it, it can be hard, but yeah, I guess it’s worth it in the end. It was so wonderful talking to you. Randi thank you again for being on my show. Thanks for having me and everyone. That was Randi Rubenstein she is the founder of Mastermind Parenting and she is a parenting coach. So you can learn more about her at Mastermind Parenting dot com and follow her on Instagram as well. Thank you for listening.
1 (56m 26s):
Are you ready to start having productive conversations? Have you been listening to the podcast for a while and you hear me go through my three step PRODUCTIVE conversation process to solve any problem and your thinking, how does she do that? Guess what? I made a really cool resource for you guys. I call it the problem solving one sheet. Okay. It’s one sheet front and back. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt, but it will walk you through how to have productive conversations and you’ll practice. And before you know it, you will be having productive conversations all day, every day. It really is the solution to solve any problem. So you can download it at Mastermind Parenting dot com forward slash problem solving all one word that’s Mastermind Parenting dot com for slash problem solving all one word.