MMP164: Kids that Resist Shots & Vaccines

(1s):
My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast at Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. You’re listening to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast with Randi Rubenstein episode 1 64. Hi guys, you’re in for a treat treat treat today. I have my son, my strong-willed son, my formerly strong-willed son, who is now pretty much grown and flown Alec. He is 23 going on 24 on the podcast today. So fun. And for anybody that wants to see what he looks like, check out our social channels, Mastermind Parenting we’re on Instagram from Facebook.

(51s):
We may even put this video out on YouTube, just because I think it’s fun. I think it’s fun to see us together and see what he looks like. He’s the real reason that I have Mastermind Parenting and why I dug into learning new tools because he came to me and I didn’t know how to help him be in a better mood. That’s the bottom line, the bottom line was, was he was kind of cranky and I was secretly determined even though I didn’t realize it to give my kids the best childhood ever, because I didn’t have the best childhood ever.

(1m 32s):
And, and so I really wanted to do it better and do it differently. And I needed to have little happy people so that it was kind of this, this almost like a superficial validator, like, see, you are getting it right. You win, you win, you win. I didn’t know it at the time. Cause I wasn’t self-aware enough. I mean, I was 27 when I had Alec and I hadn’t started digging into this whole process that I’ve been on this ride that I’ve been on for the last, what, 25 years. But anyway, Alec is in town. He came in town early for Thanksgiving.

(2m 13s):
And so we were hanging out and I was telling him about, I don’t know what he was talking about, but I was telling him about a coaching scenario yesterday with a mom in my group who had, I’m hearing this a lot right now is, you know, the vaccine was just approved for kids five to 12. And so now it’s flu season and I always hear right around flu season or just periodically moms of sensitive kids saying like, like what do I, how do I handle this shot sexual situation? So we’ve coached on this a lot over the years. And right now that many people are taking their kids to get vaccinated.

(2m 57s):
This is a very relevant issue, I think, for a of people. So it kind of just seemed like time was of the essence, because I mean, I think I’ve coached three or four moms on this over the last week. And so I was telling Alec about it because he is a sensitive kid and it’s an example of, he’s an example of me doing it all wrong. And I was, I said, you know, basically I tell moms all the time, learn from my mistakes. Like if we can help, like if we can help you help your child in a much better way that I wasn’t aware of, then it sort of like, feels like me writing a wrong a little bit.

(3m 38s):
And I said, I use you as an example all the time because I did it wrong. It’s why you have a needle phobia. It’s why you freak out about shots. It’s why it’s an issue. And if I can help another kid not to have to deal with that, you know, I have that trauma, then I got to do that. And so I said, why? I said, would you record a podcast with me? He is not, you know, typically he loves to listen to podcasts, but not mine. Of course not mine other podcasts, but he’s never, he he’s never been one to be on the pocket. Like Avery’s been on the podcast here and there.

(4m 20s):
She doesn’t really mind and Corey’s even been on the podcast, but Alec is much more behind the scenes. And so I was like, well, would you, I think that’s going to help. I think it would help a lot of people. And he was like, okay, he’s got some free time. He was a little bored yesterday. He’s, you know, he’s kind of on a little bit of a break right now. And, and so he was just like, yeah, all right. Kind of like I have nothing better to do. So I was like, okay, let’s meet up there in an hour. So anyway, we came up here really quickly to the podcast studio and we recorded this podcast about shots, about Kids that Resist Shots about the mistakes that I’ve made.

(5m 3s):
Of course, we have to talk about dogs. The dogs were here in the studio with us and yeah, we just had a little conversation about it. So I hope that this helps some of you guys. I hope that it helps you to not make the mistakes that I made. And hopefully it helps your kids to get through something that can feel really overwhelming and really scary and, and, and just teach them that they can do hard things. And that it’s important to keep their bodies safe and healthy. And sometimes we have to lean into the hard, to be responsible for our bodies.

(5m 43s):
And this is not, I’m not here telling you that you’re not being responsible. If you’re not vaccinating your kids, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m, this is a message geared for people who, whether you’re vaccinating your kids against COVID or the flu or their well-check vaccines. This is, I’m not taking a political stance here, even though I am very much pro vaccination, but I have moms in my private community that have differing political views than me have a different stance on vaccinations. And frankly, I don’t believe that that’s my business or my area of expertise.

(6m 26s):
I stay in my own lane about it and make my own choices. And don’t force my, my choices down, anyone else’s throat. So that is not what this podcast is about. This podcast is a hundred percent about supporting you in supporting your child through something that can feel very scary and overwhelming and hard so that you don’t leave them with trauma to heal from in the future. Like I did. So that’s what I got. I’m here with Alec. They, if there’s people listening, I don’t wave we’re On video and we’re in a little podcast studio and I just, Alex in town right now, he lives in Austin.

(7m 13s):
And I just said to him, Hey, why don’t you come over to the podcast studio and record with me, which he’s never done before. He is my oldest child, 23 years old going on 24 and a few months. College Graduate Still in college though. Yes. In a graduate program. Yeah. Proud of that. Aren’t ya. And he’s in town, came in town for some doctor’s appointments in town, through Thanksgiving. He’s Cheryl’s father. Yeah. Which I don’t know. I like her, but I wouldn’t let Her stay with us.

(7m 56s):
Everyone likes having her in Austin, but I don’t know. It’s easier. It’s been nice having her in Austin because I’ve been my has been hurt. So like I can’t exercise or anything. So like the only time I get out of my apartment is to walk Cheryl and like hang out with her. So that’s nice. But I think once I start exercising again, it might be like kind of annoying. I might want to bring her back Because why? Because you feel guilty when you’re exercising and you can’t take her with you. Yeah. And when I exercise, I’m not as inclined to like walk five times a day. All right. But what about all the Mo?

(8m 36s):
Yeah, so we’re, that’s our big dilemma is where is Cheryl living? Full-time because she’s Alex dog. Well, yeah, but now I’d rather her live in my apartment than y’all’s apartment. But once you’re back in the house and she can hang out on the pool, then I would let her go. Yeah. And this is not a situation where we’re like, we’re going to take responsibility for your dog. No, no, no, no, no, no. I feel pressure to leave her at home more than I feel pressure to have her, my son We’re all so obsessed with her that we were hoping that he was going to, she’s always going to be Alex dog. We were hoping that she was gonna, he was gonna leave her with us.

(9m 18s):
But she, he was saying, because she has such a good life at the house with us, but now we had a water leak, swayed to move out of our house. So we’re in an apartment too. And so now she’s been going back to Austin with him and we’ve all been a bit bummed about it, But she’s nice to have around because you guys have Stella here and like, we don’t have any dogs around and it’s nice to have a dog around just to hang Out. You mean, you’re saying that it’s nice to have her. Well, even if we had Stella up there, it’s just nice to have an animal around. Even last year when Cheryl would go home and my friends across the street had that cat, Paul, it’s just like nice to have an animal to keep you company.

(10m 6s):
Sometimes it changes the dynamic for sure. Animals, with dogs, with human names have the best. So, so yeah. So Alex in town, we’re recording. So this is on video too. Maybe you guys, I don’t know where we’re going to release the video. Maybe on social media, a little clips. We might put it on YouTube. We’ll see. So for those of you who are wanting to see what Alec actually looks like, you can check out his book. No. Don’t tell people to stalk you on Facebook. I don’t have any pictures on Facebook really? So they’re Old probably. Anyway, I invited him because yesterday I was coaching a mom on her daughter getting a shot and she’s getting the COVID vaccine.

(10m 51s):
Now that it’s been approved for kids five through 12. And, and I was telling Alec, I said, you know, all the highly sensitive kids are, the parents are having issues when it comes to getting shots, whether it’s a flu vaccine, the COVID vaccine. And what’d you say? I mean, I definitely didn’t want to get a vaccine, but I, it wasn’t that I wanted to, I was more didn’t want to get the vaccine because I was scared of getting the shot then, because I don’t like know what’s inside of it or whatever, but I don’t know it. What initially got me to go do.

(11m 33s):
It was just that you booked my appointment for me. And same thing for Jamie when she went to go get her, it’s like, it was someone had to book it for her, but I don’t know when you’re a kid. I think what helped me most honestly was when I went in the doctor lady, I like immediately, it was like, I’m so scared of shots. I hate shots so much when she doesn’t expect a 23 year old dude to come in and say, but she immediately, it was like, oh, me too. I like hate them so much at the worst. And then like, she’s talking to you throughout it.

(12m 13s):
And then every single time the shot is over, you think? Why did I work myself up over that so much? And the second one I went in and it was no problem at all. It was the first one. And then it’s like, I think a big thing is that you only get a shot like every year or two years or something like that. And so then, like, you’re not used to the fact that it’s like not a big deal at all. And obviously there’s like trauma in my brain that makes me like, get overly worked up about it. But yeah, I think it, Well, I think the trauma in your brain, that’s really kind of, I mean, that’s what I, I tell all my moms don’t make the mistake that I made because I didn’t know how to handle it differently.

(13m 1s):
Like I wasn’t aware when you were five years old and needing to get your tonsils out, that, that there was this whole gentle approach. All I heard from everyone, whether it was the old school parenting voice in my head to the doctors that were in my life, which is sometimes you just gotta do things that you gotta do. He needs to get his tonsils out. So he needs to get his blood drawn. So you, you brought them all the way down here to the hospital, to the medical center, he needs to get his blood drawn. He’s not going to get the surgery. If he doesn’t get his blood drawn, it doesn’t matter that he’s five years old and freaking out and not understanding, just hold him down or walk out of the room and let the medical professional professionals hold them down, Which is not the way to do it.

(13m 49s):
Right. Which is what I never held you down myself. But I just Let them, I left The room And you don’t want to watch me screaming and crying. And then being like them being like this annoying ass kid, just, we’re just going to give them a shot and move on with our day. You know what? I just knew it was stressful. And I was just like Stressful for everyone. Well, I Didn’t know a gentler approach. I didn’t know a better way. And I w I didn’t have any advisors in my life saying, actually, you can help your kid through this hard thing. By like the way I coached the mom yesterday is me sort of writing a wrong cause I did it the wrong way.

(14m 33s):
I didn’t know how to do it the right way. And as a result, you’ve said, we have two dogs here, right there. Cheryl, for those of you watching the video, look how cute she is. She’s Goblin. She’s a friend chief for all the dog lovers out there For all the listeners. Yeah. Selling want to come get on camera to sell. Here we go. Here we go. It makes it more fun. See, all of a sudden the whole vibe just changed dogs because dogs, Dogs are great to have around. They Make the life more fun anyway. So that’s my way of sort of riding the wrong is learn from my mistakes.

(15m 14s):
Don’t traumatize your kids. So then they have a shot in needle phobia forever, and they have to work themselves up and have all this anxiety. If you know how to do it better from the time they’re little, then you can condition them to have the skillset of managing their mind, going in knowing how to take deep breaths, knowing how to tell the person, I mean, kind of what you did, like admit to the person, be vulnerable and say, I’m really scared of shots. So it might just take me a few minutes. I just need to settle myself. It’s better for me. If I Talk to you and stuff like that, that’s what helps me the most is when they talk to you, like while they’re doing it, and they’re a nice person, even now, like y’all going to get that COVID vaccine.

(15m 57s):
But if someone tells me to go get my blood drawn, like I’ll probably not do it unless I really, really need to. I want that one time when you guys made me. And that was like two years ago, I haven’t been back since, but it was a pleasant experience, honestly, because the guy was like talking to me the whole time and he was so nice. Well, the blood draws a big one for you because that was the five-year-old trauma with, from the tonsils. Like the shot freaks me out, but I can go do it. It’s the, it’s just like this, the little, the area, like right behind my elbow that freaks me out. And when I go in, it’s like a weird association with that area.

(16m 39s):
And like, I’ll go in and get the blood drawn and I’ll just be like, Hey, can you put the needle in, like right above that Spot? It’s the line. It’s Like, it’s weird that there’s like a space that makes me really nauseous. But then if they put the needle literally a centimeter above it, I’m completely fine. So like that is, I mean, how can anyone deny that there’s a mind-body connection? Oh yeah. Definitely. I mean, I’m sure that is the exact spot. I w I wouldn’t know, because I wasn’t in the room. Cause I just frigging bailed when you were five. Yeah. I was like, Yeah, remember It.

(17m 19s):
Right. You don’t remember it, but you do remember it. Your subconscious remembers it because every time you’re back in facing that trauma again, When I think about it right now makes my stomach churn a little bit. Like how can anyone deny the fact that your body? So it’s like, there’s a book called the body, keeps the score and that’s the whole idea. But what about when, remember when you were doing the tapping to help you with the needle phobia? Yeah. That helped a little bit. That was like, do they do your listeners know about tapping at all? I don’t know. You can Tell it’s kind of like a hypnotic approach.

(17m 60s):
So managing anxieties and stuff like that, where this lady, what was her name? Pooja. Pooja, like SA I don’t think I’m very good at getting hypnotized because I’ve like tried to do it a couple of times. Like at BBYO growing up, they would have like the hypnotists come, but that’s different. That’s different, but I think your mind can be susceptible to hypnotizing and it can, like, for some people it’ll take more sessions versus some people would only take like one or two. So I think I could have benefited from doing more sessions with Pooja, but basically what she did was like talk me through.

(18m 41s):
Or she, like, we like outlined what the traumas were. And then I like kind of closed my eyes. And she had me like tapping on different pressure points around my body. Like, I dunno, like in circles kind of like, It’s the acupressure points in it. It’s kind of like Eastern. It is it’s Eastern medicine. And the technique for anybody interested is called EFT tapping. And it’s sort of like being able to do acupuncture on yourself. So remember, it’s like eyebrow side of the eye under the eye nose, chin collarbone. Yeah. Collarbone bone. And yeah, like under your armpit and the whole time, you’re like three saying a mantra to yourself.

(19m 28s):
Like I’m not scared of needles or like needles are of no harm to me not helped for like, I, we did that when I had to get my blood drawn for <inaudible>, You know, what really might help, you know, what really might help is, is there’s another kind of therapy that, that is a somatic experience therapy that is called EMDR that uses rapid eye movement. Yeah. And so that it’s like they go back into the event that caused the trauma and they, and they sort of like redefine it so that you’re able to release that event and neutralize it, EMDR therapy might work for the shot and needle thing.

(20m 15s):
Yeah. That could be interesting. I mean, yeah, it’s annoying. I want to go get my blood drawn because I there’s like things that I want to check, but I can’t bring myself to go actually do I think she’s frustrated and there’s a lot of good therapists that do EMDR. There’s not as many therapists that do EFT tapping. I don’t think it’s as mainstream. It’s still kind of an all day, Not as mentioned, EMDR is way more mainstream than, than EFT tapping. Well, it Didn’t work that well. Well, It also, because I freaking passed out and threw up when I went and got my blood drawn. Right. I mean, the thing is, is if you learn EFT, I mean, the neat thing about EFT is that you don’t have to go to a therapist to do it.

(20m 59s):
Like I have taught it to myself and release big traumas through EFT tapping. So it’s a method that I believe in and works. And I like it as an instant gratification junkie because I’ve been able to do it on myself, but I just haven’t found that many mainstream therapists that, that do it. Yeah. But I believe in it because I do it, I use it Definitely ease my anxiety for a bit. I remember after like thinking, cause like I just said, I think to myself about getting my blood drawn makes my stomach a little uncomfortable, but I remember right after I did that, I like didn’t have that feeling in my stomach. And I was like, I could go on and do this right now.

(21m 40s):
But it just went away over time because I didn’t keep it up. Yeah. I fell out of it, I guess. Well, and so, so yesterday this mom, she had taken her daughter to get the, to get the COVID shot two times. And there had been a lot of drama and, and the father, the parents are divorced and the father was there and he was saying, what you know, most people say, which is just hold it. And they went to Texas children’s they didn’t go to a pediatrician’s office. So it wasn’t anyone. She knew Texas children was just, you know, turning them in, churning them out. They need to get the appointment done. So between the father and Texas children, they were like, just hold her down.

(22m 24s):
And thank goodness, the mom who’s been a mastermind mom for a long time. She knew better than that. And she was like, no, we’re not doing that. Like she, cause I’ve told them these stories about you ad nauseum. Like you guys do not traumatize your kids. It’s better to leave the doctor’s office, not get the shot and take some time to help your kid develop the skills so that they have the courage and you go and you sit next to them and you’re take a more gentle approach where you don’t have to because years and years and years of trauma, because you’re in a hurry to knock this off your to-do list. Like it might take longer, you have a highly sensitive kid and, and you don’t need to traumatize them.

(23m 9s):
So she had already known that. So now they’ve tried twice. And the second time they were in the pediatrician’s office for an hour, they did numbing cream, all the things. And after an hour, the nurses like, bye, like you got to leave. Like I got It’s frustrating. I’m sure I probably would get frustrated if I was Well and the ma and afterwards, and the child will, you know, because the mom and the child have a really good relationship. And the child’s, you know, really was like, I really wanted to I’m so sorry. She was crying. She was upset. She felt like she disappointed. Mom and mom was legitimately frustrated.

(23m 50s):
And I said, exactly what you just said, like, you’re a human, you’re not supposed to be mother Teresa here. I’d like for you to say to your kid, I’m not going to force you to do anything, but now we’ve taken a second time out of the schedule and come down here and it didn’t happen. And I’m a little annoyed, like w you know, this is The next time you go in the girl, Get her shot. Well, maybe not because the girl really wanted to do it, but she just couldn’t. And this is what I said to mom. I said, look, I am a full grown adult, obviously, hopefully with a fully developed brain. And when I was just in Portugal, hopefully, hopefully when I was just in Portugal and I had to get that freaking COVID swab up to the brain, like, oh my God.

(24m 39s):
I mean, and we went and we had to do it at the Portuguese hospital. And these ladies, they didn’t even, they didn’t speak English. And I was like asking them if they do just like the surface one, like we do here. And they were like, no, we do the deep one. And to then, and I was scared, I didn’t want it. It makes me squeamish the same feeling in the stomach. Like, I hate that swab. It makes me cringe. They shove it up in your breath. It’s disgusting. I like makes me cringe. And I can’t. And so when I was in the moment and they were like, Nope, this is what we do. And I felt, I like, I was like, I don’t. And then I got mad. So, so I started blaming. So I’m like, I don’t understand why we have the surface ones that test just as well, while y’all are still using.

(25m 26s):
So then I started getting all argument and, and they didn’t even speak English. They’re just, and so then dad’s are getting embarrassed and he’s like, okay, you have tears in your eyes. And now these ladies are laughing. And I was like, I don’t care. I don’t understand why they have to do it this way. And, and so then my brain started going to, how can I get out of this? Maybe, maybe I can just talk my way out of it at the end. Then I re thought of all the people who’ve gotten turned away from flying home because they didn’t have the right test. So I knew that wasn’t an option. So then I was like, okay, I’m backed into a corner. I’m going to have to find the courage to do it.

(26m 7s):
So I was like, fine. Okay, I’ll do it. And then I was like, I’m just, I just get really squeamish. I don’t want to do it. So when I went, this one lady took pity on me and she was nice, exactly. That like, when the people are patient and then they start talking to you and they take your mind off of it. So she took me to the person that was going to actually conduct the test. And they were like super sweet and gentle. And they were like, it’s going to be okay, we’ll do it so quick. They were reassuring me. And so once they were reassuring me and I got out of that state of panic, then I remembered my skills, which is the deep inhale and a very slow exhale while imagining something else and thinking about something else.

(26m 53s):
And I also had heard, if you exhale kind of harder, it makes it less uncomfortable. So I also knew I had that tool in my back pocket. So I’m remembering all those tools and I was able to get through it. And what I, and I said to the mom yesterday, I said, you know, you have to think this is, you know, an eight year old. She doesn’t have a fully developed thinking brain. She doesn’t have the skillset. So she needs extra patients. And, and so like, Let’s talk about, think for, well, I says with just some ideas for it, a manager on anxiety, But not in the moment when she’s anxious and she thinks she’s Going to forehand. Cause you can’t think when you’re anxious, your mind is all jumbled right better to, before you go in And through the nose, out through the mouth.

(27m 44s):
And then like, I like to pinch my leg when I’m dealing with pain. That always cause it’s just like redirecting your focus from one page to another pen. And realistically the pain in your that you pinch yourself with is going to be 10 times worse than the shot pain. And they’ll recognize that immediately after. So That’s a good tactic. Did you learn that? Or you just figured it out? That’s Just something that I do. I mean, you know what, having tools that you can pull from him. And so this mom, I said, but in the meantime, just surrender to if it’s not going to happen, but also have some boundaries and have a plan.

(28m 29s):
I said, so afterwards, you don’t shame her. You don’t blame her. You can say I’m annoyed because we, you know, it didn’t happen again. Like you can be honest, I’m not annoyed with you. I’m just annoyed that now we’ve got to make another appointment and go back. Cause that’s legit. I said, but you can also have boundaries around. Cause she was like wanting to, she was like, do I take away all technology? Do I do this? Do I do that? I said, okay. So it would be legitimate for you to think about. So here’s the deal. You’re not going anywhere. Unmasked. You’re going to, and from school mask from now on, and there’s no extracurriculars. So going to your brother’s football game, not an option until you’re vaccinated going.

(29m 11s):
Other places like we will hire a babysitter. So until you’re, you know, you, you are able to find the courage and go through with it and get your, and, and get your Kind of show that we’re not just getting the shot for no reason. We’re getting the shot because it’s making us safer and all that stuff. However you want to look at it. And so it’s not just like, like I remember when I would get flu shots when I was younger, it was like, why am I getting the flu shot? I never get the flu. Or when I do, it’s like not that bad. And you always got The flu shot. So it was, Yeah.

(29m 51s):
But either way, you’re not connecting this immediate pain with the overall picture of why we’re doing it. So once that’s connected, then I think it makes more sense To know the why. Yeah. We’re not just getting a shot to get a shot or getting a shot so that grandma doesn’t die from COVID. Right. Right. And, and we don’t know, you know, whatever we have to connect the why and, and treat kids with respect. Right? Like that, that they deserve to know the why we don’t just, we don’t just tell them, you just have to do this just because we need to like speak to them on their terms and explain it and let them understand it.

(30m 36s):
And so I said, but you can also have boundaries. Like I’m going to put, we’re going to try it again. We’re staying we’re at 15 minutes. If in 15 minutes, it’s not the day you, you don’t, you decide that, you know, you’re not feeling brave enough to do it that day. Then we’re leaving and it will be to, and from school with a mask, no extracurriculars until you’re able to be responsible and keep your body safe with the vaccine. So we’ll just keep doing it and told, you’re finding the courage. And I’m happy to talk to you about some things that help me lean into hard moments and do hard things and find my courage when I’m feeling scared too.

(31m 15s):
Right. And, and so really taking the time it’s a process. And I said, which sounds like a big freaking pain in the ass. But if you can, if it can be short-term pain, the pain in the ass pain of now for long-term gain, which is not traumatizing your kid and having them have to deal with a needle phobia when they’re 23 years old. Yeah. Yeah. That’s sucks. Do you think it’s beneficial to like offer incentives? Like you go get the COVID vaccine, we’ll get ice cream after, So I’m kind of anti bribing. Yeah. I was thinking about, and I don’t know if that would be beneficial or not, Because what the kid’s going to say is that sounds good.

(32m 2s):
That sounds good. But the bribe of the ice cream later on, isn’t going to take away a genuine fear in the moment. Yeah. And if you, if you bribe them with the ice cream and they do it for the ice cream, cause they really weren’t that scared in the first place they were just being defiant. What ends up happening is is that then they’re like, well, what am, what are you going to get me? Give me if I do this thing and what are you going to give me? And then it just becomes like a kid that is constantly asking you what’s in it for me. Instead of feeling the intrinsic reward of look at you. You were so, you know, after the fact that your fear, you conquered your fear.

(32m 43s):
That was hard. You were scared. You’re just a little kid, you know, you didn’t know what to expect. You didn’t know what was going to be such a quick shot. You were scared and you were courageous and you did it today. I have an idea. Should we go celebrate and get some ice cream? You know, should we have ice cream dinner tonight? Right. So you celebrate, you don’t hold it as a carrot. You let them experience the intrinsic reward inside and then you celebrate the courage. So then you reinforce Yeah. Positive reinforcement. Okay. All right. Alec is getting really bored by this conversation is yawning a lot, A little hungry, honestly, but yeah.

(33m 26s):
Okay, good. Thanks for coming and talking. I think this is going to help. I think a lot of pair I’ve had over the years, a lot of parents of sensitive kids ask me what to do because their kids are refusing to get flu vaccines or shots or things like that. Yeah. I mean, hope this helped You were going to say something Before. I wasn’t going to say anything. I don’t know. How long are your podcasts? Usually? I don’t know. It depends most of the time they’re 20 to 30 minutes, but sometimes they’re a little longer listen to the blabber mouth out there who is that? I know who it is, but I’m not going to say it on the podcast because he might be a listener. Okay guys.

(34m 7s):
Thanks for listening. Hope this helps. Bye. Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household. I want you to go to my website and check out Mastermind, Parenting dot com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support, then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you. And as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting on Instagram, it’s Mastermind, underscore parenting.

(34m 54s):
And you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives, where I give you teaching and coaching. And I love engaging with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better because when they feel better, they do better. And I love, love, love, getting to know you guys. So thanks for listening. If you liked this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review super, super appreciative.