301: What Your Kid Wants You To Understand

[00:00:00] Randi Rubenstein: My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. 

Well, hi everyone. I have a special treat for you this week. I am here with Lindsey, who is My, I like to call her my Mastermind Parenting co parent. She helps me in all the ways. She helps, she takes care of all the people that work with us and um, she’s just my right hand. She’s my Mastermind co pilot. 

And we are here with Esther. Esther from New Zealand. So thank you for being here. Esther’s a mom and she has been listening to the podcast on the other side of the world. Um, and I invited Esther on because Esther and Lindsey have gotten to know each other and I just am curious to know more about you, Esther, and your story and yeah, so I’m excited to dig in and hear all the things.

[00:01:02] Esther: Yay. Exciting. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:05] Lindsey Sheinbein: 

[00:01:05] Randi Rubenstein: This is my first meeting with Esther, but Lindsey and Esther have known each other. So, so Esther, why don’t you tell all the listeners how you, you found us, how you found Lindsey, how long has it taken you do you think to make some big changes in your home? 

[00:01:26] Esther: I found Lindsey through your website because I’d been listening to your podcast probably for about a year before I kind of, reached out and made contact. And then, uh, Lindsey and I had a really awesome zoom conversation. It was like 5:30 in the morning or something here and I was driving to work, but we made it happen with the time zones and yeah, we had a really, um, easy kind of connection and, and we’re, we’re talking about, um, my situation, I have two sons, uh, one is eight and the other is almost six and my oldest son is very much a highly sensitive, like wonderful, um, strong willed kid, but can be very hard work. 

And so I approached Lindsey about, um, participating in, uh, the self directed program that you guys offer. So, um, I really wanted to sign up as a member and work through that program. And then Lindsey and I began like voxing around accounts, accountability reports and stuff, as I worked my way through the basics program. And yeah, we just hit it off. And, um, I was so grateful for Lindsey’s support, um, alongside what I was doing and learning through the basics program.

[00:02:41] Randi Rubenstein: Like you’re the first person that has gone through the program in this way. Like everyone else, I like to say, I pretend like I’m like moving in with you. Um, you know, like I get, I mean, people who have been working with us for like five years, I’ll remember like some little random detail about their life. And they’re like, wow, you just remembered something. And then afterwards, Lindsey’s like, how? What the fuck did you remember? Like why? Like what is going on? I’m like, I can’t remember what light switch turns on what light in my house. But for some reason I can remember these little details because I, I am fascinated with all of you and everyone’s stories are so interesting. 

And so Lindsey was giving me updates on just how self directed you were and just how you were applying the concepts and integrating them and understanding them and all the ahas you were having. And you know, because I have a codependent conditioning about me, I’m like, so wait, she didn’t need me to hold her hand. She didn’t need me to move in with her. She’s just like she’s just doing all this like I’m not even involved over here. All she’s doing is listening to

[00:03:58] Lindsey Sheinbein: Well, you were involved because as things came up that like, maybe I didn’t, know exactly what to say or just wanting extra content. We have so much content that I’d be like

[00:04:09] Esther: Hmm.

[00:04:10] Lindsey Sheinbein: directing her to clips that you’ve taught in the past. So you were there just not in a direct 

[00:04:17] Randi Rubenstein: well not in it Yeah, like I like Esther I guess you felt like you knew me, but I didn’t know you and I you know and so that was fascinating to me because I started the podcast way back when really because I just this information that has changed my life and that I’ve integrated in, you know, it’s changed my kid’s life, it’s, but it has changed my life the way I think. Um, and so I wanted to share it. 

There might be people that listen to this podcast that are taking these concepts and integrating them into their life. And I don’t ever even know, I may never know. Um, and so I knew that could be happening. And so when you came and now there’s evidence of it happening, I’m like, this is really cool. And, and I think the, this fact that you are literally across the world, New Zealand. Texas. 

[00:05:13] Esther: You know that Texas is the only place in America I’ve actually visited? Which is so funny. Yeah, I’ve been to the States, but only to Texas. Yeah. Um, I went to Houston, Dallas, um, Austin. I had a partner, an ex partner who was there and all his family were in San Antonio. And so we We visited around. So I have a kind of, there must be a connection there, a Texas, the Texas connection.

[00:05:41] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, yeah. So, um, so yeah, so I was just fascinated and I, I wanted to know more about you and, um, what helped you to be so Sort of self motivated and self directed like are you a magical unicorn? Have you always just been like a person who you’re like, oh if I want to run a marathon, I’ll just run a marathon I’ll just train and run it. Like are you just a person that holds yourself accountable? Like tell me more about you Esther as a person.

[00:06:13] Esther: Like, when I get a fire inside me to do something, I really just go for it. Um, with parenting, I think Lindsey asked me this question. She was like, what were you like at school? Were you like really kind of. you know, A student and worked really hard and I actually struggled at school. I was a hard worker, but like then the, the learning didn’t kind of feel like it ever came naturally to me.

I had to work a lot harder than other people and still kind of ended up with, with generally kind of lower, like CB kind of grades. But when I had children, something happened and I just became completely Obsessed with like child development and child psychology. And also like understanding how as a parent, you’re, you’re so confronted with your own shit. Like you’re the work that needs to be done and you just can’t get away from it. 

And so then I got interested in, you know, like, how do you start breaking some of those generational patterns? Um, and it’s just like become a complete obsession for me. Like it’s something I, it didn’t kind of, I don’t have to actively, turn it on and force myself to achieve in this arena because it just is something that I’m so passionate about.

So I think it was a combination of me having a natural kind of passion for, um, kids who are a little bit different and understanding them because of my own personal experience. And then, yeah, the way that you guys structure the course with those like weekly accountability reports, and then having Lynn’s there to be able to kind of interact with and break things down a bit. So it was just kind of the perfect combination for me. 

[00:08:00] Randi Rubenstein: That’s so interesting. You, when you were sharing sort of that fire and not even like, not even having to think about it, all of a sudden you just had this fire within you to learn these things that Maybe, I mean, had the, had these topics, child development and had that ever been an interest to you before you became a parent?

[00:08:21] Esther: I think I was always interested in people. I was very curious about what made people tick. but I didn’t consciously kind of study that until I had my son, and I just. I couldn’t like for so long, I couldn’t understand like, what was kind of unsettling his nervous system? Like, what was it that was triggering him and was triggering me. And that kind of fueled, I guess, what had always been a kind of underlying natural curiosity into something. I really just went all out, like reading, listening to podcasts. I must’ve listened to, I’ve listened to thousands and thousands of hours of podcasts and read books. And, 

[00:09:06] Lindsey Sheinbein: One week her assignment was to not listen to anything else. I was like, we’re taking a break. No more books. 

[00:09:13] Esther: Just listen to Spotify and it was great. Yeah.

[00:09:17] Lindsey Sheinbein: To listen to some music.

[00:09:20] Randi Rubenstein: Like you sound like younger me. Um, cause it was the same, I had this difficult kid and all of a sudden I was just, obsessed with learning as much as I could, but back, you know, 26 years ago, uh, he’s 26 

[00:09:37] Esther: been anything. Wow. 

[00:09:39] Randi Rubenstein: There, it was so, I mean, I read books and sometimes I got a hold of some audio. I mean, I guess there were CDs at the time. It was before iPod. And so I was just reading books, and then I took a six week parenting class. Um, I think, you know, it’s just, if I think back to my journey, there’s like, I can pull out all the different pieces that now have become Mastermind Parenting. I mean, when he was a baby and, I mean, I highly sensitive people that wasn’t, I don’t even think that was a term yet. Um, I didn’t read The Highly Sensitive Child. I didn’t find HSP or any of the work of Elaine Aron until he was 10.

[00:10:24] Esther: mm

[00:10:25] Randi Rubenstein: for the first 10 years of his life, I was reading everything. I mean, I, when it came to like, how do I get him to sleep? I mean, I read Dr. Sears. Uh, with the attachment parenting, which I was like, that sounds terrible. Um, you know, and what I took from Dr. Sears was. I did wear, I mean, I was a big baby Bjorn wear, you know, and that was back in the day before, I mean, especially in Texas, I think in California, people were always in, in other parts of the world, people are always wearing their babies, but no, everyone here had those big giant strollers with the car seat that, you know, clicked in it.

And, and that’s which, that’s how you transported your baby. And I was like, well, I’m not going to walk around my house with a stroller and he seems to be crying every time I put him down and like, I need to be able to make a sandwich sometime, like I’m hungry and I need two hands. So I started wearing, so when I read the Dr. Sears stuff, I was like, Oh, I’m going to get one of those things where I’ll wear them. 

So what I got from the attach, I wasn’t up for the whole, like, sleeping constantly and, cause I really like to have my own space, but I, you know, so I started wearing them. So I got that piece, which thank God, I think that was extremely grounding for his nervous system just to have all of that kind of skin to skin contact, just holding him so much in those early stages. 

But then I read Baby Wise, which was this like, really it’s yeah, but it’s but you know what it really is for, it’s a great model for dogs. It’s so good for dogs, like the crate training like Baby Wise is so good for crate training and it really works well for dogs. And for humans It’s like, uh, yeah, we’re a little more layered than that. 

[00:12:24] Esther: complex. 

[00:12:25] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. we’re, we are. So, um, but what I got from that as a super not structured person was. Oh, you got to have a schedule. Like that sounds so obvious, but like I was learning, I mean, I was learning like not even addiction, addition and subtraction when it came to parenting in those early infant years. I was learning, like basic executive functioning skills, which now I know like I didn’t have a lot of, I had been, I a child of chaos and a lot of numbing.

And I just, I didn’t have a lot of those executive function skills. I probably was ADD, you know, all those different things. So, so I’m, I learned all these different pieces, but I just, I kept reading the next thing and reading the next thing and reading the next thing. And so that’s why I’m so obsessed with the way the mom of 2024

is able to learn 

we’re communicating with people across the world. We’re able to help or connect with another mom who’s in the trenches, who’s ready to pull her hair out, who’s probably lonelier than she’s ever felt in her life and feeling like the weight of the world is on her shoulders. And we’ve like we have community we have support like it’s so I am so obsessed with all of like modern technology, combined with like what you said like Lindsey cared.

She was invested in me, she was invested in my child. She wanted to actually know us, hear about us. That human connection piece mixed with technology. It’s amazing, this world that we live in and all of this access that we have.

[00:14:16] Esther: It is amazing. It is amazing. 

 I think as well, like, hearing Lindsey going about her daily life and just realizing that you guys are so busy, that your parents as well, it made me really kind of appreciate the responses that Lindsey sent me and it was always kind of like a real treat to get those messages because I was doing the self directed program.

So I sort of felt like very, yeah, very grateful that Lindsey would take the time out of her day. You know, I could hear her driving around and sending me messages and it’s like, wow, you know, this woman on the other side of the world is going about her business with 

[00:14:55] Lindsey Sheinbein: my very best thinking

[00:14:57] Esther: You’re amazing. 

[00:14:58] Lindsey Sheinbein: Like in the car, that’s like, I think the best. It’s weird. 

[00:15:03] Randi Rubenstein: It’s so interesting to me because it’s also like, everybody’s so panicked about, you know, AI and how fast the world is changing. And I, and I’m like, but what you’re pointing out is it’s like, here’s the person on the other side of the world, a real person who cares about me and wants and is prioritizing me in her day. Right? Like, we think things are, are so complicated. But really at the end of the day, like we’re all still humans wanting to connect with other human beings. And it just feels good when that happens. 

[00:15:46] Lindsey Sheinbein: Especially since before Mastermind, I didn’t have, I was just like trying to find the resources. And I wasn’t, I’m a reader now, but I wasn’t back then. So for me, it’s like my pleasure to be exactly what it was that was lacking for me. I was just, I would try to find something and yeah, that wasn’t the right thing. And then I would try really taking my son places for therapy. 

And so, yeah, for both for Randi and I, it’s like being able to share everything we’ve learned that has made such an impact for us feels like a gift. Especially when we never know who’s going to actually implement the things that we say, you know, cause not some people just take in the information, but actually implementing it and making those changes, that’s 50, 50 chance, right? Either way we show up and share, but like, it’s a really fun when the person’s like you, who actually is willing to try out the new things and make the changes. Uh, 

[00:16:58] Randi Rubenstein: Okay. Well, I want to, I want to dig more into your story, Esther. Tell me, so you’re eight year old, your son.

[00:17:08] Esther: Yep.

[00:17:09] Randi Rubenstein: Like what was happening that you were just like, I’ve, we’ve got to figure this out. Like, I want to hear about like the super shitty days.

[00:17:22] Esther: Yeah. And look, we still have them. I think that’s the other thing is like, you know, I’m a human. I’m, I’m an imperfect person and I’m all good with that. And so is he. So, um, disclaimer. 

[00:17:34] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Or tell me about the shitty days even now.

[00:17:36] Esther: Yeah. I think like Henry. He can be challenging because he often seems like he’s in a state of fight or flight, you know, like his, his nervous system is very easily. disturbed. Um, and so it can feel like a constant challenge to kind of hold him in a way that is settling for him, um, hold the boundaries, hold a sense of calm, um, and just a sense of like, I’ve got this in terms of my energy, like that can be challenging to bring that because when there’s a little chink in my armor, he just kind of falls apart.

Like he senses it and he’ll either kind of go into attack mode and be challenging all the boundaries or, um, he gets kind of physical. So the behaviors that, that was sort of coming to the surface for him would be, um, yeah, like physical aggression. So being rough with me or his little brother, um, just kind of his tone and his language being kind of dis, disrespectful and, um, unkind, um, Yeah.

And him being kind of revved up a lot of the time. So those are the three kind of most challenging behaviors. And I mean, that started when he was about one and a half. I mean, he was the kid that was walking at nine months, never stopped moving. He loved throwing balls from like one year on, you know, he was always throwing things.

Um, he kind of needed to experience life in a very intense way to almost get like the same feedback that we would just Through a much kind of more low key approach to life. Like he, he really kind of is seeking that intensity a lot of the time. Um, yeah. So in terms of challenges, those, those were the big ones for us. Yeah.

[00:19:40] Randi Rubenstein: That’s so interesting. I mean, I love how you just synthesized it because what I know is that you’ve been studying your kid and it’s like since he was little, the, there were a couple of things I just heard that I just think are incredibly insightful. You know, he was moving from a, like moving fast and, and had an intensity about him from As early as nine months, you know, I would you say a year and a half old,

[00:20:10] Esther: Yeah. I mean, from nine months, we were like, Whoa. And people used to be like, Ooh, he must be hard to keep up with sort of thing. You know?

[00:20:17] Randi Rubenstein: But the thing you said that I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say it like this, the way he is wired, it’s almost like he needed these intense, extreme experiences to have the feedback that he was looking for, that, that most of us receive with we don’t need that level of intensity to get that feedback.

So like, you know, if he’s looking for, you know, dopamine or, um, it makes me think like how many, I know so many people who you just described and I’ve never thought of it that way. And I even think about the people who are like extreme sports

[00:21:05] Esther: Yeah. Push themselves to that limit, right? Just to experience kind of almost like being alive, like that’s the gauge for them on, you know, I’m here, I’m, I’m live, like I’m present. Like that’s how that, that’s what they need to feel like that. Whereas for some of us, we’re like, I need to cuddle up in my bed with my dog and you know, that’s how I feel alive, you know? Um, yeah. 

[00:21:30] Randi Rubenstein: That’s so interesting. I mean, I could even think about like my own family. We’re always talking about, you know, watching, you know, different shows that we want to watch together. And they all make fun of me because I’m such a wimp and I’m such a wimp and they watch all these intense shows. And so far, like right now, I just agreed to my husband’s rewatching Peaky Blinders.

[00:21:53] Esther: Oh, yeah. 

[00:21:55] Randi Rubenstein: And so I. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I’m going to try. I’m going to try. And, he’s like, it’s so good, but I don’t know if you can make it. And, and, and so I’m really trying so hard. Last night, I think we’re on episode like four. and he said to me after like episode two, he’s like, He’s like, well, are you ready? Are you going to give up? But anyway, I said, Peaky Blinders, I’m like, I’m really trying. I, the, whatever, whoever the head actor is. He’s so, I was 

[00:22:26] Esther: Cillian Murphy. 

[00:22:27] Randi Rubenstein: Oh, my God, he’s like delectable. I’m like the fact that he, yeah, I was like, I think I’m going to keep watching it because I love that main actor. Is that enticing to me?

Um, but you know, like, isn’t that so interesting? You know, it’s like, it’s like, we are not meant to all be wired the exact same way. And we’re just not. And I don’t think we think about that as parents because so many of us were In school systems and, and, and parents thought that they were being good parents to raise their kids to basically be sheep.

Like, this is the way we do things and you know, I mean, how many people have come into our program that just happened like last week where they talk about obedience and disobedience and I’m like, so just so you know, I know it’s, it was used when we were all growing up by lots of parents, like you want to have obedient children, you want to raise your kids to be obedient. I was like, but obedience is for dogs last I checked,

[00:23:36] Esther: Yep.

[00:23:37] Randi Rubenstein: not for human beings. So, you know. Responsible, cooperative, collaborative. like, 

[00:23:44] Esther: Yeah,

[00:23:45] Randi Rubenstein: you know, but obedient. Um, and so I’m just like, okay, so we are all supposed to be wired differently. And yet then we become parents and we go back to the model that was most likely used for us that didn’t feel good for us. And, we’re at odds with our kids and not accepting. Yeah. 

[00:24:07] Esther: Yeah. I was just thinking that as you were talking like I think for me I was so surprised. I thought I was this very kind of progressive, you know woke, you know parent and then I had Henry who was so like I used to say to my husband Can we just go somewhere and just blend in like I don’t want to like stand out like And it sort of became like this ongoing joke like oh, I don’t know You know, the Roberts have arrived, you know, we were always like that family, but Henry really challenged some of that deeply ingrained kind of patterning in me where I did come from a family.

We had five kids. My parents were very firm. I wouldn’t say they were strict, but you just didn’t mess with them. Like there was just this kind of unspoken understanding that, you know, you just didn’t go outside of. The lines basically. And, but we weren’t wired like Henry is really, I, I was probably the most like that as a kid.

Um, but it was only for a very kind of short period of time. Uh, I don’t know if my parents just nipped it in the bud or whether, because I was a girl, I suddenly started to become more kind of conscious of like fitting in and, and things like that. But yeah, when I had Henry, I was like, wow, this is so confronting for me.

Like I really did. deeply believe that, you know, um, I should have well behaved children, you know, like that was the ultimate like parenting goal. And now I’m like, that’s way down on my list. Like sure. You know that they have elements of kindness and respect and, and kindness. You know collaboration that you talked about and that they can be good problem solvers But I see with Henry that he’s much more complex than that. So it’s not just as simple about as him being kind of good or bad, you know as a kid. 

[00:26:02] Randi Rubenstein: Well, I think you’ll be surprised. You said something else that I heard that when he senses a chink in your armor, I think those are, those were your words that then he reverts back. Um, and I think that’s something interesting. I’d like to unpack a little bit.

[00:26:25] Esther: Knowing what I know now, think he feels most settled when he knows I’m leading, so not controlling, but when I’m leading, and so by that I mean that there’s a kind of calm assuredness in how I’m showing up, that I’m not perfect, but I’ve got this, I can roll with the punches, I can, you know, ascertain what’s a big deal, what’s a small deal, and I’m not kind of taking his behavior as a personal attack on me.

So if I come out of that space, which, you know, I do because it’s, you know, real life, like I can’t always sustain that 110, 110 percent of the time. Yeah. He really responds to that and he’ll kind of meet me stepping out of being in that leadership space with behavior that’s essentially kind of checking the boundaries.

It’s like, mom, have you got this? Like, have you got this now? And what about if I do this? Like, how are you gonna respond to that? Oh, I see. You’re kind of like, I’m, you know, and it becomes that fight dance thing that you talk about a lot. Um, I think it’s that when he senses that I can’t kind of hold the boundaries and I can’t, and I can’t hold myself, um, as the leader and that I am maybe in a more kind of reactive state. He totally meets me with his own version of that same energy, basically. 

[00:28:06] Randi Rubenstein: and you know, it’s so funny because we, we look at that as defiance, um, you know, there’s so many different categories that, that people put kids into without having this awareness piece to look in the mirror and to notice like, like you’ve studied the pattern. And so my hunch is that you’re looking back at the moments when things kind of went off the rails and, and looking, well, where was I? Like what exactly, like, it sounds like you’re evaluating after the fact, what just happened? Why did that just go sideways? 

Things were, seemed like they were going well, and then he started power struggling me. He started testing boundaries and testing boundaries. And, and I saw, you know, I saw hard Henry pop up. What caused that? Rather than blaming him that he’s just defiant. There’s something wrong with him. He’s always so hard. Why can’t things be easy? You know, all these sentences that usually come out instead, it looks like you actually really evaluated what was going on for me, am

[00:29:16] Esther: Mm hmm.

[00:29:17] Randi Rubenstein: I right? Or, or tell me. 

[00:29:20] Esther: Yeah, totally. I, it was hard for me to admit that, you know, but now I’m kind of okay with it because I realize it doesn’t make me a bad parent because I am, I have those moments. Now it’s more about, 

[00:29:35] Randi Rubenstein: It makes you a good parent that you’re, I mean, this is so growth mindset. People talk about growth mindset. This is what growth mindset looks like in real life is that if you think back to all the times in your life when you learned anything like, oh my gosh, that year was so hard or that trip was so hard, that semester in college with that class. It, those are when we have the biggest life lessons is when it was hard. 

So like as a parent to go back in after the fact, like you survived whatever that hard moment was, you got through it cause you’re on the other side. But then to go back in and to evaluate why, what, if it, kids act on the, on the outside the way they. Feel on the inside all behaviors communication. You start to go through you’re like, what was the reason? Was I in my pack leadership? Like was I? Feel like what deep what led to that going south like that little piece that you just skimmed over I just want to point out like that’s a huge piece And you’re right. It is hard to do because I think when we get through a hard moment, especially with our kids and we’re like,

[00:30:55] Esther: Mm hmm. 

[00:30:56] Randi Rubenstein: over. Like who wants to think about that again? Who wants to take the time to evaluate yourself and, and to have some ownership over what maybe, you know, was coming up for you. And like, and also this, I also think it takes a lot of self compassion to be able to. You know, like you keep saying, like, I’m not a perfect parent. I’m not a perfect parent. 

And I’m like, there’s no one, anyone who’s pretending to be a perfect parent. Is the farthest thing from a perfect parent. I promise you anyone who is acting like they have all the answers and they are the perfect parent and they never have any war stories They’re the ones that are doing things when their curtains are closed that they feel So ashamed about it’s just perfect. Perfect parenting 

[00:31:45] Lindsey Sheinbein: are those li what do you say? They are those liar people.

[00:31:49] Randi Rubenstein: I mean They’re lying to themselves though. So like so like yeah, like I it takes a lot to be able to go and say, okay, that sucked. But also I know that my kid is, the fancy word or the fancy term is, you know, we are always co regulating off each other. It’s really like, we think we’re so evolved, but you know, they’ve, I mean, they’ve studied human beings where we are not that different than who we were when we were cave people. So we still, we always co regulate off of each other, you know, your vibe attracts your tribe, all those little sayings, that’s what it means. And so you’re right when Henry is reacting and you check in with, when we’re going through that NICE framework, okay, I’ve got a kid that just tested boundaries, battled with me on every little thing.

[00:32:52] Esther: Um, Um,

[00:32:53] Randi Rubenstein: Is this kid tired, hungry? You know, or feeling like they haven’t connected with me at all. Are they feeling disconnected? Like basic needs. So, so are there, have there, yeah, no, like things were cool. Okay. So then we keep moving down. Well, what else could it be? Hmm. What was going on for me? What was going on for my pack leadership? Right.

And yeah, like I, you know what, when he started, I was annoyed or I had, I was still carrying with me the fact that I was tired and I had a, I didn’t get a good night’s sleep or I hadn’t eaten all day. Or I had just. You know, had this situation happen at work where that coworker said that shitty comment and I keeps eating at me and, um, and I just wasn’t in the mood, I wasn’t in the mood to look at the, you know, him do that, you know, cartwheel for the hundredth time or jump on that thing for the hundredth time.

Like I was over it. Oh, and then he vibed off of me because he sensed that I wasn’t really there with him. And I wasn’t feeling like, you know, a present strong pack leader in that moment. And then which, who is going to be that person all the time? We’re going to have moments where we’re like, I’m not interested.

I don’t want to look at you doing that thing for the hundredth time. You don’t have my full attention every second of the day. Sorry Like there’s gonna be moments where we don’t feel like it, but we dial it in and then our kids feel it right and 

all these concepts we hear. I mean, you’re listening to, you know, thousands of hours of podcasts, you know, I’m sure you’ve heard all the terms, the self compassion and the growth mindset and the, you know, pack leadership and you know, all behaviors communication, but when you’re in the thick of things and trying to, as you said, change generational patterns, right? You’re a cycle breaker, Like this is what it looks like. It’s layered, it’s loaded. There’s a lot involved here.

[00:35:08] Esther: And you’ve got to kind of, I think what you said before, you know, like the growth mindset piece around going back and, um, like reevaluating what happened. Like I, I get this image in my mind. you know, where it’s like that you fall over and you pick yourself up and then you keep going, but you kind of look back and you assess like what happened, what kind of led me to trip then.

I think like what happens over time is you grow this confidence. Like I’m all, where I know now, like I always get back up again. Um, and that confidence that I can get through the, the tough times, whatever that looks like, and then still have the courage to like turn around and look at it is really reassuring for me.

And that’s kind of really helped me just carry on. Cause with these kids, you know, it can feel relentless. Like my husband and I will get into bed some nights and we’re like, this is just like pure endurance, you know? Um, and if you haven’t lived with a child like that, you just don’t know. Like my other son, it’s like completely different and there’s all sorts of reasons, you know why that is, but you suddenly start to realize, you know, that you’ve got it.

You’ve got, you have actually got the grit. To do it. And not only that, but you’ve also got the, like the self worth to really get as much learning out of this process of parenting as you can. And like, what a gift you’re giving your children through that. Like, I might not get it right with Henry all the time, but I know 110 percent he’ll look back on my journey as a parent and he’ll be like, she bloody tried, you know, her best all the time, the post its, the courses, the podcasts, you know, the coaching sessions I do with him where I’m trying to get him the way I work with his teachers and his school. And, um, I know he’ll look back and he’ll understand I couldn’t have done anything more. 

And also that for the issues I can’t help him with because all kids, I think, will have those that I’ll, you know, help him in terms of finding his own support network outside of the parents. I don’t think the parents can always or ever help kids solve every single challenge that they’ve got. I do think that children at some point have to build that support network for themselves of these other people that come into their lives and play these really influential roles.

Um, and so I guess like that’s a little bit as well, taking off that pressure of myself, like I’ll do what I can while I’m in the driver’s seat, you know, and he’s living in my home with me. But, um, I will also help him build a network that can support him outside of this family in the future. Cause I know there’s things that I just won’t be able to help him with the same way someone else might be able to, you know. Um, 

[00:38:13] Randi Rubenstein: sort of like the opposite of narcissistic parenting, right? Like 

[00:38:19] Esther: it weird because it’s like it is so self focused in lots of ways, but you’re only doing that because you know, that’s how you understand like what role are you playing in the dynamic, right? Um, but yeah, it’s so not narcissistic, even though it is a lot about looking at yourself. It’s funny.

[00:38:40] Randi Rubenstein: I mean, I think that’s the reason that you look what I, you know, I, I coach hundreds and hundreds of people. And, when we really drill down on most things that trigger us, it’s something about our kid’s behavior is making us feel like we’re failing as a parent. 

[00:39:03] Esther: Yeah.

[00:39:05] Randi Rubenstein: that’s a hard thing to look at or even admit. but really it’s like, would we, would we be taking all this behavior so personally? If we didn’t feel like it was a reflection on us failing at this job? That we in this role that we’re like, I got the, out of all the things I, maybe I was a C student, maybe I wasn’t the best athlete. Maybe I’m not even the best sister or daughter or wife or whatever, but as a mom, dammit, I am going to be a superstar.

Right? Like, it’s like, I am nailing this. And so then you have a kid that’s like, no, you’re not like you’re, I’m going to put you through like intense, rigorous training. If you want to be a champion, like, I’m sorry, you’re, you’re going to have to be on your a game and you got to learn some better tools. Like the, the conditioning from past decades, it’s just not going to work. It’s just not going to roll in this era. So you’re going to have to learn some new ways to help guide me and help me learn how to be alive and, and that old school stuff’s just not going to fly.

[00:40:19] Esther: Yeah. And who wants to blend in? You know, like, and Lindsey and I talked about this in a, I think in one of the accountability reports. We talked about, you know, what parts of you are triggered. And also I looked at that Robert Schwartz, you know, the parts, No Bad Parts, love that by the way. And yeah, it’s that teenage girl who wants to just like blend in, but I’m like, I’m not that person anymore.

And I don’t want to, and I’ve got this son that’s just like living life to the full and like, what a beautiful thing. And I think this year I’ve really noticed like a blossoming in me, which has been inspired by him and actually just being okay with not, not blending in, um, 

[00:41:02] Randi Rubenstein: You said something earlierr that, um, that you said you were talking about, you know, growing up in a family with five kids and it sounds like it was, you know, stable family, good parents, sounds like, you know, authoritarian, um, like this is the way we do things here, period, end of story, case closed. And you said, yeah, if anyone was the most like Henry, it was probably me. 

And I’m like, my curious puppy went, hmm, okay, so maybe that part of that Henry part of you that was. That was, you know, that was punished out of you. That was shamed out of you. That was squashed. But it’s not gone. It’s maybe just been deeply hidden and buried and sort of dormant and now maybe that part of you is becoming alive again. I don’t know. Does that resonate or how would you edit that?

[00:42:05] Esther: Yeah. I think I’m at the beginning of that awakening, you know, I don’t know what it looks like for me to embrace that side of myself as an adult. I think in my youth, it was just like a. Really uncon, like not self conscious. It was just like an innocent kind of energy. I was vibrant and active and climbing trees and tomboy and kind of just like out there living life in that way, running around and using my body.

And then. In my teens and my twenties, I kind of explored that in all the ways that, you know, you don’t want to do it, but that’s what you do, you know, through drinking and drugs and all those kinds of things. And now I’m kind of just hit 40. I’m like, okay, well, what is that part of me really like? And as weird as it sounds like, I don’t want this to come across as really kind of superficial, but like for me, like how I dress and, um, yeah, like that’s been a way this year that I’ve really been just expressing myself in different ways and being like, who cares if I wear this? 

[00:43:18] Randi Rubenstein: Me as a coach, whenever I hear someone either changing their house, changing their clothes, changing their hair, right? It seems superficial, but it is always a sign that they’re going through a transition and it’s, they’re going through a transition where it’s like my old identity and who I was. 

It’s like if we were snakes, we’d be shedding our skin and, and, and I’m entering into a new season of life, a new cycle. And you know, we go through, we, we change cycles all throughout our life. I mean, we go from babies to toddlers to kids to adolescents, like those are all, you know, normal transitions into a new season, into a new cycle. But we also go through. Changes where we’re going from, you know, single person to married person to parent person. 

Um, and then we also go through like this change and I think it happens for many of us around 40. I know it did for me. It sounds like it’s happening for you. Um, where it’s like who I was like these clothes. like they don’t even go, I don’t know why, but they don’t go with me anymore. And so we start to change things on the outside, but it’s really just a reflection that there’s something changing on the inside.

And I think at 40, I like to describe it as at 40, I think that you get to a fork in the road and some people continue on the same path, like maybe they get a little inkling of this, but it’s too scary. Um, you know what? My life is good enough. It’s just fine. Um, it’s maybe not the like most exciting or, or I don’t feel as alive or I’m not getting the love that I truly crave or whatever it is, but it’s good. It’s good enough. Right. and so we continue on the same path. 

But then there’s others, which it sounds like you fall into this category, where we’re like, actually, I’m going to veer right? I’ve no idea where this route is gonna take me but it doesn’t it doesn’t feel right to continue down the same, the same path that I’ve been on, I’m veering right. 

And so, just so you know, spoiler alert, the veering right really just takes us back to where we began all those years ago when you were climbing trees and feeling alive and outside in nature. And, before you became adolescent and young adult and went through that season. Like that is from birth until eight years old is when we are our most authentic self. And so I think for those of us that are veering right at 40. And that’s really the journey is back to who we were during those first eight years.

[00:46:33] Esther: Mmm. Yeah, I love that. That really resonates with me. 

[00:46:39] Randi Rubenstein: So it’s not super, it’s not superficial, like change your clothes, like see what, you know, and, and, it’s pretty simple where it’s like. You know, if you think about things like, uh, I’m not liking any of my clothes and then you start to think, what do I want? What do I like? Like start to notice, like thinking about clothes like food, like we’re pretty clear like,

[00:47:02] Esther: Mmm.

[00:47:03] Randi Rubenstein: like I don’t like mustard or I, I like ketchup, right? Like we’re, we’re not waffling on that. Like we know what we like and what we don’t like when it comes to food. And so you start to apply that same model. To clothing. Like I realized like, Oh, I don’t like fabrics that aren’t soft. I don’t, you know, like I remember like maybe it was 10 years ago where I was like, I don’t like shoes that aren’t comfortable.

[00:47:29] Esther: Yeah.

[00:47:30] Randi Rubenstein: Right? Like I threw away 

[00:47:31] Esther: okay.

[00:47:32] Randi Rubenstein: so many shoes. I was like, these shoes are so cute. And these shoes are so cute. Not comfortable, not comfortable. Like I, I was like, Oh yeah, I’m now a person who doesn’t wear shoes that aren’t super comfortable.

[00:47:44] Esther: Yeah, I’m like that with pants. I’m like, these pants are not comfortable at all times of the day. They’re not my pants. Um, yeah, no, I totally get that. And I think you just, you’re going for what you want, you know, like you said with the food. So I think the forties is about a time of, yeah, just unashamedly going for what you want. And this is, it feels like your chance to really kind of just go for it in life. Yeah. With a whole lot of learning behind you that you don’t have when you have a similar experience wanting to go for it in your twenties, you know? 

[00:48:19] Randi Rubenstein: So if you had. not given birth to a Henry and only had your easier, younger son, would you be veering right at this fork at 40? I mean, do you think

[00:48:38] Esther: no, I often think about that, like, what would it be like if I just had an Elliot, or if I had two Elliots? Uh, I definitely wouldn’t know myself as well as I do, and I wouldn’t have evolved, um, in the way that I have. Even my relationship with my husband, it wouldn’t be as rich as it is with what we’ve gone through together.

Um, I wouldn’t change it for the world as difficult as it’s been. And at times as like, as lonely and desperate as I felt, I wouldn’t change it. And I also wouldn’t change it for Elliot because he gets a better me because of what Henry has taught, taught me in life as well. Um, yeah, I definitely wouldn’t be very right. I think I would have become much more, um, middle of the road, blending in, still focused on that kind of path. 

[00:49:35] Randi Rubenstein: Esther, it’s been fascinating hearing, you could have been describing me in so many ways. Yeah. Like it’s just, 

[00:49:43] Lindsey Sheinbein: you guys got to meet.

[00:49:44] Randi Rubenstein: You know, it’s just so interesting. It’s so cool. It’s like this whole idea that like you’re describing how you’re feeling and what you’ve gone through and, I identify with so much of it. And it’s just so cool that we can connect like this and we’re on opposite sides of the world. 

[00:50:02] Esther: Yeah, it is, it’s amazing, and I’m just grateful to you guys, to both of you, and I think one of the things that you guys really gave me permission to do, apart from all the wonderful content that you’ve created, is just to be myself. Like, I’d never listened to a podcast where someone dropped the F bomb, and I was like, Randi is freaking badass. Like, she just dropped the F bomb and then the C word in the same episode, and I was like. These are my people. 

Because you know, there’s this whole like, calm parenting and I’m gonna talk to my children like this and it’s like, that is not who I am. You know, um, I feel like you guys are very real people and you give women, moms especially, um, complete permission to just be authentic, to do the work, but to just be authentic, like just cause we’re doing the work doesn’t mean we have to be these Zen masters that talk in a wafty way. It’s like, no. Um, so yeah, I thank you for that. 

[00:51:12] Randi Rubenstein: Thank you for pointing that out. That makes me so happy, um, because the truth is, like, I think all of that is so fucking performative and, I know a lot of really cool people, and then I see them as parents, and they’re not those super cool people anymore. Like, it’s like they all of a sudden have to play what they think a good parent looks like on television. And I’m like, kids are like authenticity, truth barometers. Like they know you’re faking it. And, and so now this kid doesn’t even get to feel like they know their real mom, like, like bring your cool self to the table.

And I’m not here. I mean, look, I wasn’t dropping F bombs every other word in front of my kids and, and, and teaching them those things. It’s not that I was doing that, but like, I just was being real. I was just being myself. My voice didn’t, my son has pointed this out. My youngest son has pointed out that like my voice didn’t change when I was around different people. He really appreciated that like, I think it was his way of saying it made him feel safe that he could count on me to be his mom.

Whether we were, oh, we were in front of his grandparents or the random, you know other mom that was you know that we were running into like the fact that I didn’t change my personality I was just my same self with him I think it makes kids feel like they they know us and it helps them to I think it feels emotionally safe like oh I can count on you to be the same mom no matter who’s around.

And so when we’re constantly, I think people even do it when no one else is around. Honey, you know, what did mommy say? And, and so they’re putting on this whole, you know, this whole performance and I’m like, ugh. And then guess what? The minute that that kid is ignoring and ignoring, you know, honey, did you hear me? When you do this, then you’ll do that. You know, they start like, you know, copying all these, the little strategies and the kids ignoring and ignoring. And then finally they’re like, I said, you know? So then, the authentic part comes out during those moments. And it’s super confusing for kids, you know, like 

[00:53:53] Esther: I have like a half sister who’s younger than me, um, and she often says to me, like, I love the way that you just talk to Henry like he’s just a person. And I’m like, yeah, cause. I just, I’m done with, it doesn’t work with him, that gentle, whole peaceful kind of vibe. It’s just not, he, he needs to know that he’s like meeting the real person. 

[00:54:15] Randi Rubenstein: Corey saying when he was a counselor at camp, he was, you know, he said it several times that you just have to talk to kids. Like, like I talked to them the way I would talk to my friends. And he’s not saying, I’m using F bombs right and left with eight year olds, but what he meant was like, level with them.

Like, they understand so much mom and they think the, all the adults, like they think they’re lying to them. And a lot of times they are lying to them. They’re like homesick and they’re like, will you call my mom? And they’re like, yeah, we’ll call your mom. And he’s like, They know they’re not calling their mom.

And so, you know, when I talk to them and they’re like, I don’t think they’re calling my mom. He’s like, I don’t think they’re calling your mom either. You know, like he’s like, he’s like, but when, like when you just tell them the truth and you just, you’re like, he said, I would go, dude, like, I know, like It’s hard to be here right now and you’re really wishing that you could talk to your mom. And I wish I could change that for you um, but I can’t and it sucks. And he’s like, and a lot of times I would just say that but it was just the truth because he knew nobody was calling. but you know, he’s like he would say I didn’t need to say, I’ll do everything I can to get them to call your mom. He’s like, they just knew they weren’t calling their mom. They didn’t appreciate being lied to. 

And when I just acknowledge, yeah, they’re probably not. And I know it sucks. And you really want to talk to your mom. Like pretty soon they’d get over the homesickness. They just want you to tell them the truth and level with them. It’s that authenticity, you know, so I think that’s what you’re saying. Like, you felt like you could, it was safe to be your authentic self, you know, because you heard us talking like, you know, or me talking like I was, you know, just the way I would talk. And I think that it feels good, not just for kids. I think it feels good for all people.

[00:56:18] Esther: Yeah, definitely, 

[00:56:20] Randi Rubenstein: Love it. Um, okay. Thank you, Esther. It’s been so fun to get to 

[00:56:24] Esther: you so much. What a treat. I’m so grateful for this opportunity. Thank you so much to both of you. 

[00:56:31] Randi Rubenstein: Thank you so

[00:56:32] Lindsey Sheinbein: We enjoyed it.

[00:56:34] Randi Rubenstein: Thanks for listening. Bye for now. 

Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.

And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys. 

So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, super appreciative.