307: Helping Kids Through A Messy Divorce (with Rachel King)

[00:00:00] Randi Rubenstein: My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. 

Hi everyone, I have a special guest this week that I’ve never had anyone like this on before, but it has been over the years I have had clients that have gone through divorce. Um, I don’t think it’s anything that, that, you know, I, I set out to know much about, I don’t think that many people set out to know much about divorce until you go through one. 

Um, so I’ve just sort of been a fly on the wall and tried to be a support in any way I can. And so when Rachel King reached out to me to come on the podcast. It just seemed super relevant. Um, and I know a lot of people are going through this. 

So today I have Rachel King. She’s an attorney. She’s a powerhouse litigator. She’s California certified. She’s a California certified, certified specialist in probate law. She has a fervent dedication to resolving high conflict family cases with a focus on divorce, child custody, support, asset division, modifications, elder abuse, and her expertise spans across California, Arizona, Kentucky, and Texas.

At the heart of her practice is a commitment to our clients goals and the belief that success is achieved through collaborative teamwork. As the leader of a top tier trial team, she ensures that every case is approached strategically, and with unwavering determination. 

She, her legal advocacy extends beyond the courtroom. As a CBS correspondent, she brings legal insights to a broader audience and her podcast gavels down, voices up, entertains and educates listeners with captivating legal stories. Excitement is building for the release of her first book and a divorce series, which promises to offer invaluable support, practical legal tips, and real life stories to those navigating the complexities of divorce.

And that is what we are getting into today.

Hi, everyone. Okay. I am here with the amazing Rachel King and she’s going to teach us all the things about divorce. We’ve in 30 to 40 minutes, we’re going to learn everything we can. I know that I’ve been put in a position quite often where people I care about or my clients are going through a divorce and I’m always looking, I think I’m, my zone of genius is finding the best team of collaborators.

Um, and so I was very impressed by you, um, when your team reached out to me and I did a little sleuthing and, um, you know your stuff. And so I’m like, Rachel, we need you. Because when it hits you and especially when it’s a surprise divorce, you know, I don’t, I don’t know if anyone’s really planning on divorce and there’s kids involved. It’s just so sensitive. There’s so much to consider. So thank you for doing what you do and now teach us everything.

[00:03:31] Rachel King: Oh, gosh, in 30 minutes. Let’s see. Uh, it, nobody is prepared for a divorce. And I think that’s one of the hardest parts is even if you’re in a marriage and you’re watching your marriage decline, or you are the one that wants the divorce, you’re not prepared for divorce. And part of that is exactly like you said, the kids add in the finances.

But one of the things that I think is so under considered or, or, yeah, maybe under considered is the loss of the dream. Nobody gets married thinking they’re going to get divorced. And the fact that you have to mourn this loss, even through all of the anger and all of the hate and all of the feels, it can be really, really hard because you’re like, man, I hate this person. I don’t want to be married to them anymore, but why am I so sad? And it’s, maybe because of the kids and it’s maybe because of money, but it’s mostly because your dream has totally shattered and now you have to find a new dream

[00:04:35] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. The grief, that’s such a good point. Like you’re going through, there’s so many logistics and there’s, I mean, you know, your kids are going to be deeply impacted, right? And so anyone listening to this podcast, like they’re the kind of parent who really wants to get it right. Like they really don’t want to screw up their kid. Not that anyone wants to screw up their kids, but when you’re listening to parenting podcasts or signing up and taking programs and you’re a forever learner, because you really, really are so, you’re just prioritizing raising a healthy human. 

A lot of times people that, um, I, I have found that there’s kind of a common denominator with many of my clients and many of my listeners where we secretly want to do it differently than it was done for us. We want to set our kids out off into adulthood, um, not having to maybe do as much healing work as we’ve had to do in our adulthood. And then finding yourself, you know, here at this, you know, critical apex of, and now I’ve been so committed to raising healthy humans, and yet I’m getting a divorce. 

And, and so the grieving of the dream, but it’s also maybe connected to that is the grieving of, I had this dream for my kids to come from this solid nuclear family and that dream is ending too for them. And so I think it’s so gunky.

[00:06:16] Rachel King: It is and, you know, maybe I hate to be the buzzkill here, but when you get divorced, or you are in a long term relationship, and you’re splitting and you have kids, you’re losing a whole bunch of control. And the law in California, and in many states, I presume is kind of that other parent gets to screw up the kids however they want, as long as it’s within the confines of the law. And the law is pretty generous. If you don’t beat your child and you give them a place to live and make sure they’ve got reasonable food, doesn’t have to be great, you’re probably going to be allowed to raise your own children.

And that’s really hard in the best case, right? Because we are trying to raise the best humans and be the best parents that we can be. And then you add in a layer where a lot of people are like, okay, well, I don’t like my other, the other parent. I don’t like my spouse. Um, I stayed married and because I was there watching them be the parent, I’m okay with it. But now that I’m not going to be there watching I really don’t want them to have time with my kids. 

This is very common in Alcohol and substance abuse, right? Well yeah, I’m married to an alcoholic, but when I was there in the house, it was okay because I made sure that the kids were safe I made sure there was always an adult presence that was sober. Now that we’re not together anymore, I’m not really sure I want our kids to go over and spend weekends at their house because they’re going to be a drunk. And so there’s so many different feelings. 

Law aside, I think the thing that has been most successful for my clients navigating this process is understanding that you need to be the parent that you’re going to be comfortable being. Right? We have no control and I have an adult child and I have teens. We have no control over the takeaway that our kids are going to have. Right. We could do everything how we think is perfect, and my goodness, they’ll come up with something that was just devastating. And it’s like, were we in the same room? 

So you focus on being the best, parent that you can be, handling your divorce in the best way for your children, because that’s going to be what you want to do, making the best decisions for you as a parent so that on the other side of it, regardless of what your childrens’ takeaway of the divorces or the custody, you know, that you handled the situation the best possible way that you knew how.

Uh, because outside of that, man, you’re going to be really upset if, if you’re expecting perfection to be everything that you want, because there’s no perfection and nobody gets what they want in family law. If you can walk away with one thing that you absolutely wanted, I say, take it and run because most people get a whole bunch of eh in a, in a family law divorce.

[00:09:21] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. I wonder what you think about this. I’ve always thought that when you get divorced, I do think that the control piece that you brought up is so interesting. And I think that’s so true. So many people stay in a bad marriage because the thought of giving up that control and they so don’t trust the other parent to be a good parent. So they stay because they want to keep their kids as safe as they can possibly keep them, and they want to control the situation. But not in a, you know, mastermind-y manipulative way, in a well if I’m here I can have eyes in the back of my head like I can. 

And so I’ve always felt like if that’s your reality, then everyone’s living in a tense household all the time. Right? And it really is being controlled, um, by the parent who is possibly narcissistic or has, you know, struggling with substance abuse issues, yada, yada. But really you’re staying there and you’re being controlled by this person that you don’t want to be with, but you feel like you have no other choice. And then your kids are growing up in an environment where it’s just a household filled with tension, versus, well,

[00:10:43] Rachel King: And your kids are looking at you because kids see things thinking, oh, this is an acceptable family dynamic. That’s, that’s what you’re teaching them. 

And I started interrupt, but I think that’s just as important as, like. All right, what’s the lesser of two evils in this right? Am I teaching them that they should be married to somebody like this or that? This is an acceptable. We’ll say father figure, though there are mothers that do it too, or am I going to deal with the loss of control on my side to try and show them what is appropriate behavior and how to set up appropriate boundaries? 

[00:11:20] Randi Rubenstein: Well, that makes me think of the Glennon Doyle quote, where she says, why would I stay in a marriage for my kids when I wouldn’t want this marriage for my kids? 

[00:11:33] Rachel King: Exactly! 

[00:11:35] Randi Rubenstein: I thought that was really well said. But my thought was, even though you have to reckon with that loss of control and what happens at the other parent’s house is out of your control, the thought that a kid has the possibility of being at one home at least 50 percent of the time that is not filled with tension. Their everyday life is not filled with tension and you now get to live your own life and you don’t have to play by the rules of this, you know, partner that you didn’t want to be with anymore and you were only staying with for your kids. My and I have nothing to back up this hypothesis, but my feeling was, I think that’s healthier for the kid to at least half of the time be in a space that isn’t filled with that every day walking on eggshells tension.

[00:12:29] Rachel King: And then you add in that you’re happier. They’re feeling loved, they’re having the example of a loved household. And what most people forget because it’s so emotional, this child custody battle, is, hopefully, let’s fingers cross this, your children are adults far longer than, not just their childhood lasted, but also the divorce process or the child custody process.

So, if you can focus on your relationship with your child, providing the atmosphere that you think is best for your child when you have them, and really doing everything you can to set it up so that when your kid grows up and moves out and creates their own life and their own identity, they’re inviting you back into it. 

Because at the end of the day, that’s all we want, right? Is we want to have these great humans that we push off into the world that are successful. And then I promise, if you don’t have adult children yet, you will think that all you want is to be invited back into their adult life. 

And so, as you’re navigating the tricky divorce or the high conflict, I’m sorry, the tricky marriage or the high conflict divorce or the really brutal custody situation just remember, you want to really focus on your relationship with that child, specifically so that when they grow up, they’re still calling you on the phone, like, hey, mom, can I come over? You want to go get a pedicure or have coffee? That’s what you want.

[00:14:06] Randi Rubenstein: I 100 percent agree. Whenever I have a chance to spend time with one of my young adult children or other young, like I was just out of town with a lifelong friend and we were with her daughter, her 25 year old daughter, who’s in graduate school. And she like stayed at the hotel with us and her favorite time she was saying was in the morning we all had coffee and we were hanging out in bed and just chatting.

And I’m like, it is such a gift when they let us be a fly on the wall of their lives, when they invite us in. Because I didn’t, I didn’t want that with my parents when I was, I was like, bye. Um, so I agree. I think it’s such a gift when they do. 

[00:14:50] Rachel King: And we forget that, right? We forget how we treated our parents, especially when we’re going through something like divorce or custody. But remember that, truly, it’s the after that matters. It’s not the custody battle, and that’s way easier said than done, but I tell my clients when you’re going through this, whether you’re contemplating divorce, you’re in the, the middle of the divorce, or even toward the end and recovering from divorce, it’s never too late. To know your legal rights. Have a therapist that can help you navigate the emotions and give you some tools to get through it. And then have your support system, your friends that are going to be your ride or die cheerleaders. 

And you need all three because they all have different roles. Your ride or die cheerleaders are there to say, screw him, he’s an asshole. You deserve everything. But that’s not true, so then you need your therapist to teach you how to navigate all of these feelings that you do think you’re entitled to everything, or that you had all of the control. Or that you were the stay at home mom during the marriage, now all of a sudden you have to go be the working single mom. And then you’ve got your attorney, which you don’t need to hire an attorney full time, but at least consult with one so you know, whether it’s appropriate to think that you’re going to get primary custody, or that it is realistic for you to be able to continue to not work from home. 

Uh, all of those things coming together can really help what is a huge roller coaster, arguably one of the most difficult things any human’s going to have to go through, be a little bit more manageable. So that at the end of it you can see exactly what you’re saying. That your kids are going to be great. You’re going to have a lovely relationship with them and you’re going to be invited into their world. 

Because I got a text message from my daughter who’s 19 this morning saying you want to get coffee after I get off work at 3? And my gosh, I was like a giddy middle schooler like, yes, I do. I absolutely do. Let me clear my calendar for you. 

[00:16:57] Randi Rubenstein: I’m the same way. And when my kids call, like during one of my coaching calls, I’m like a desperate teenage girl. And like the, the, the hot popular boy just gave me an ounce of attention. I’m like, hold on. Hello? I’m on a coaching call.

[00:17:14] Rachel King: Of course, I can do anything you need anything you need. But then still still trying to be like, very casually. Well, let me check my calendar. See if it works. But no, I’m I’m

[00:17:23] Randi Rubenstein: No, they know I’m desperate. They’re like, settle down, mom. I’ll you back after your coaching call.

[00:17:30] Rachel King: I think this is really what the emphasis should be on when we’re going through a difficult child custody battle. Is remembering that at some point, whether you are married in that uncomfortable marriage or even a happy marriage, or you are, had the worst of worst divorce and custody battles, at some point, your kids, they’re going to grow up and they are going to be expected to create their new life just like we did. And that is where you want to be focused on through all of this. 

You might be drug into court, lies, alienation, substance abuse, mental health, physical abuse, all of the things can be there, but you want to keep your eye on the prize, which is making sure that you have the best relationship that you can with your kid through the entire process and after. Because that way, no matter what garbage they’re dealing with through the divorce, the custody battle with other parent or the rest of their lives, you’re there. And you want to be the best parent that you can be so give yourself the opportunity to do that. 

And it really comes back to not making it about you. Right? Not making the divorce at all about you. Not thinking that you’re the best parent, because you’re not the best parent. Not thinking that your way is right or the only way because you’re not always right. And you’re definitely not the only way of doing things. So you can get rid of all of that, and just focus on having the best relationship with your child. I think everything else falls away.

[00:19:08] Randi Rubenstein: Because the thing is, is kids just want to know that they’re safe and they’re loved. And that reassurance, right? And I think it’s tricky because when you’re, I use this term pack leadership, like we’re the leaders of our packs, but when you’re, you know, you’ve just been wounded and you’re like one leg down and you’re limping along because you’ve gone, you’re going through this whole wounding of a divorce and then all of a sudden you have to show up with your little pack members and be like, we’re good. We’re safe. Like I got you. Right?

Um, I mean it’s a very tricky position to be in because you’re, you know, you are wounded but kids, it’s like they can’t, they, we can’t really like let them know, like we have the therapist, we have the ride or die friends, we have all these other adults supporting us so that we are able to show up with our kids and let them know, like, we’re going to be okay, right? Because I think that’s what kids need. I don’t think they can, I think it makes them feel unsafe if they see you feeling super wounded. What do you think about that?

[00:20:21] Rachel King: So I don’t think, I think first therapy for kids is important. I’ve never seen a judge deny child therapy when one of the parents asks for it, even if the other one is adamantly opposed to it. So I think, you know, understanding that your kids are going to go through this too, and giving them the support and the tools is really helpful.

I don’t think that you’re doing your kids any service to hide them from what’s going on, but I definitely think you need to keep them out of the details. I hear a lot of people tell me. No, I’m never going to lie to my kids. So I’m going to tell them, for example, that dad cheated on me. And that’s why the divorce is over.

Well, that isn’t lying to your, not telling them why you’re getting divorced or what the breakdown of the relationship is, isn’t lying to your kids. So you can just tell them age appropriate information. Also considering that they love this person. Right? Or they’re supposed to love them. And if they don’t, it’s because there’s been some devastation in their relationship with the other parent, but you don’t need to go in and give them all of the details.

So, I think as a parent, you need to weigh letting them know that there, this is it’s okay to feel this. It’s okay to need help like therapy. It’s okay to rely on other people. But also to not bring them down into the weeds and be so brutally honest that they know all of the details of your case. 

One, it’s not good for your kids, it’s not good for you, and if you do end up in court, the court is going to hate it. And then I did just want to touch on the term safety. I think we look at, from the outside, safety as protecting our kids and keeping them in like a very safe emotional space. But that is not the same term as safety under the law. And I think that there needs to be some reconciliation in that. 

You don’t like your ex. Everybody knows that. That’s why you’re getting divorced. If you’re in the court, having the court make a custody arrangement, the court already knows that there’s some kind of high conflict because that’s the only people that end up in custody court. And so safe isn’t going to be the same. 

And if you walk into a courtroom in a custody battle with the idea that you are, your environment is safer because you don’t yell at your children. You don’t spank your children. You have a fabulous relationship where your kids can talk to you and other parents has chores and his border, you know, his discipline might be borderline inappropriate, but very authoritarian. 

And you try and go into court asking, saying, I can provide the safe environment because that’s not emotionally safe for my kids, the court might have a different perspective and say, well, not having dad around is also not very safe emotionally for your children because they’re, you’re removing this idea, this opportunity. And so I think understanding how the courtroom works is

[00:23:24] Randi Rubenstein: no, I agree with that. 

[00:23:25] Rachel King: Really important. 

[00:23:26] Randi Rubenstein: My, my use of the word safety is understanding that kids, they want reassurance. Like when you show up and you see them and you hear them and you let them know, like it’s my job to keep you safe and healthy. Like that’s, that’s my job. And, you know, nothing’s going to change. Like I’m your mom all the time, or I’m your dad all the time. You are my priority, period, end of story. I feel like that reassurance during such an uncertain time, um, I think, I feel like that’s helpful to kids because everything’s about to change, you know, but yeah, I agree.

[00:24:09] Rachel King: They need to, they need to be reassured and feel safe to know that just because I love them so much and because I wish I could be with my kids all the time and protect them doesn’t mean that I don’t want them to be allowed to create whatever kind of relationship they’re going to have with other parent, whether it’s good or bad or whatever.

I, you want your children to be in a safe enough spot through a divorce where they do feel like you are always there and you’re their number one and you’re going to be there when they need you. But also feel safe so they can say, Hey, mom, I had a really great time at dad’s or I really want to go over to dad’s house. You want them to feel completely safe with you as you are as a parent, but also allowing you to know that they’re allowed to love or participate or hate other parent without you coming in and, you know, creating that, that relationship for them.

[00:25:02] Randi Rubenstein: Well, I think sending them the message that they’re not responsible for taking care of you emotionally. Like I’m, you know, I always say like I’m the mama, like that’s, this is my job. Maybe one day when I’m old and shrively and in adult diapers, we’ll have, well, maybe this what might change, but you only, you have tons of friends and tons of people in your life. You only have one mom. And I take that role seriously. 

So yeah, can we segue into, um, okay, so, so you know, you’re getting a divorce. It’s high conflict. One of the parents has moved out maybe, and the kids aren’t really sure where this parent has gone, but there’s like some story that they’re, you know, on retreat or, I don’t know, there’s, there’s some stories, the mom and dad aren’t maybe living together. They know it’s coming. Mom and dad aren’t seeing eye to eye. It’s already the beginnings of very high conflict. 

And then there’s little kids at home from 10 to five, you know, um, three little kids. And one of the parents is telling people, Oh yeah, we’re getting a divorce. But nobody’s sat down yet with the kids to tell them. And and so there’s a parent that’s like, so panicked that their kids are going to hear from some other kid on the playground. I heard your parents are getting a divorce. 

Do you have any guide, like how would you handle that? Like I need to tell my kids, in a perfect world, we do it together, but it’s high conflict. It’s not happening. This other parent is telling other people that we’re getting a divorce, but like I have to be the one now to handle this conversation with my kids. What would be your guidance in that situation? 

[00:26:57] Rachel King: Well, you’re right. Ideally, you say that, say it together. If you can’t, though. I think plan, you. It’s always better, and I tell my clients all the time, whether we’re filing or what, it’s always better to come from the horse’s mouth than to hear it from somebody else. So, if you can control the situation, I think you do that. 

But I think practice is really important. You are going to be emotional. You don’t like other parent. Not only do not like them, because you’re getting divorced, but now look at all the stress that they’re putting on the kids and you have to handle it. And it’s all being thrown in your lap. So it’s totally natural to be angry, be frustrated, feel bailed on, uh, all of those things that perfectly not normal. Why do I have to handle this? 

But you don’t want that to come through in your conversation with your kids, which again, it’s really easier said than done. I tell my kids, uh, my clients just, you’re just going to channel five minutes. You just need to hold it all together for five minutes and then you exit the conversation. You go and complain, cry, do whatever you need to do. 

But practice the conversation. Make it as casual and light as possible. I see parents that have it, turn it into this big to do. And I’m like, Oh my God, talk about adding stress, as you just turned this into an enormously serious conversation. Take your kids out for ice cream after school, get them a treat while you’re casually sitting over the ice cream table at the ice cream store. Yes, in public. 

Just say, hey, guys, you know, as you know, dad moved out. Um, we’re going to stay here. I love you so much. I am always your mom and dad and I are going to figure out how we’re going to get through this and how you can see him and make it all about them, but also giving them permission to know that they’re going to continue to see dad, even if dad is a horrible person. 

And I, again, I say dad, just because I’m mom, but even if dad is a horrible person, you don’t need to put all of that into their minds. You just need them to know that you are going to solve this problem. It’s not as weighty as it needs to be for them. They didn’t need to have it in their bedroom so they can sob. They might tear up, and giving them the validation that it’s okay to be sad. I’m sad too, but we’re going to get through this and, you know, uh, I think that there’s so many people that love you. You can talk to me, you can talk to dad, you can talk to Nana, you can talk to whoever you want about this. I don’t want you to feel like you can’t talk about it or tell people whatever you’re comfortable doing. 

But you want to give them all of that permission without having it be this huge thing and then wait for them to see when they come around. I don’t think we need to force kids to talk. I don’t think we need to, you know, if they raise concerns, well, am I going to, you know, get to see dad again? Does this mean we’re going to move? Am I going to have to change schools? You know what? We’re going to try and do the best that we can, but we’ll talk about that when we get there. We’re not there yet. 

[00:29:59] Randi Rubenstein: And what do you think? Do you use the word divorce in this conversation?

[00:30:06] Rachel King: I think that is really goes to the child and the age. Uh, the sophistication of a child, I suppose, is probably important. A 15 year old, you probably can say we’re getting divorced, you know, a 3 year old is still learning their vocabulary. It would be weird in most cases, and in most cases, the courts find it odd when a child starts throwing around words like divorce, custody, visitation, because that’s not part of their normal vocabulary. And that seems to show that somebody’s talking about a situation that is beyond the, the appropriate level. So, I think you need to take that really, in a step by step, you know your children and look at it from an age standpoint, but

[00:30:50] Randi Rubenstein: have any?

[00:30:50] Rachel King: The six year old doesn’t need to know that word.

[00:30:53] Randi Rubenstein: Okay. And do you, are there any books that you find yourself regularly recommending when people are preparing and practicing for the conversation that are helpful resources?

[00:31:03] Rachel King: Uh, so I wouldn’t look at any attorney books. I would really look at some therapy books, some self help books on how to co parent. If you have a high conflict, co parenting situation, that’s helpful. But again, I would go back and talk to a therapist. That’s going to be unique you. You know yourself, and even better, you know your spouse and you know how they’re going to react and you know your kids. So getting real direct feedback, playing it out with a therapist, I think is going to be better. It’s certainly going to be better than your support system because again, they’re just going to be on your side cheering you on. And sometimes that can not be the best way to handle things.

[00:31:39] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, no, that’s good advice. It’s I, I felt like when I’ve been consulted, I’m like, I really think this is where you go to a therapist and you get book recommendations and really somebody who specializes in this. And, um, because they’ve studied, you know, um, they’ve studied. And I, I think that, that it’s like the conversation, you know, it’s probably going to be imprinted in your kids minds forever. Um, and that’s why I feel like the initial conversation, it’s like, I remember where I was when my parents. Yeah.

[00:32:18] Rachel King: But hopefully it doesn’t. I think that needs to be the goal. The goal is that hopefully this conversation doesn’t imprint. Right. That it’s just a conversation. Yes, it’s a change of life, but, you know, the same kind of conversation is, hey, we’re moving to Texas. Like, you want to keep it, you don’t want your kids to feel all the gravity of the situation that you feel. You want to keep them a little distant. You might want to not feel it. Tell them all at once. Everything that’s going on just bits and pieces. 

But the, the, I don’t want to say the more casual, except that I do mean, the more casual you can have this just to be a conversation with your children, the easier it’s going to be for them to get by. And then again, because I’m an attorney, if it does end up in court, the better it’s going to be for you, because you’ll never have argument that you are talking inappropriately about the divorce. You’re not going to have other parent be able to say, oh, my kids don’t want to see me because everything that you’re telling them, it gets rid of a lot of the nonsense and it’s better for your kids.

[00:33:21] Randi Rubenstein: Okay. So one more question that I’ve been wondering about, and I would love to hear what you think. When a couple gets temporary or orders while they’re, you know, waiting for the divorce proceedings to, to happen. And it seems pretty common where the kids stay in the house and then the parents come and go. So, um, what is that called? Yeah.

[00:33:49] Rachel King: I, I forgot it’s like nested, something nester. I can’t. Uh, I think it’s the worst idea. think it’s the worst idea.

[00:33:59] Randi Rubenstein: Me too. Yeah.

[00:34:01] Rachel King: I know, I think it’s rooted in great greatness, right? I think it’s rooted truly in we want what’s best and we think we can show our kids that everybody can get along. But that scenario is only going to last for a certain amount of time. And it has an end because if you’re doing everything right in your divorce, you’re going to move on. Your ex is going to move on. And now what? Now, when you have to make a change for that, it’s like reliving this disaster, your kids have to relive it. You have to re you know, it’s another change in loss of trust. Cause you thought you were going to do this till your kids were 18. 

And, I mean, I don’t think that the new significant other should ever be considered the problem when they’re like, Hey, I don’t like this scenario. I think that’s weird that you guys are doing this. I want to create our own life. 

So I think it seems like a good idea. It solves some problems, at least initially, because the kids don’t have to move. Maybe you don’t have two households still, you know, for a while, but I think it’s kicking the can down the road. And I, every time I’ve seen it, it’s been more explosive of a divide than it would have been if it had just been handled when all of the other decisions were being made, and all of the other emotions were being handled.

[00:35:27] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s been my feeling too. It’s like, it, it feels like it’s really child centric, which sounds great in theory, but you’re, you’re the pack leader and you’re still having to share space, even though you’re not there at the same time with this person that you’re getting a divorce from. So like you might like all of a sudden see their underwear in your, like you’re sharing this space.

[00:35:55] Rachel King: Blurred boundaries, like exponentially, right?

[00:35:58] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. And like, you can’t move on and start your new life and your next chapter. And I mean, kids are way more resilient than we are. They adapt to change much faster than we do. And so it’s like, you’re putting yourself in this holding pattern for the kids, but the kids are going to pick up on that energy, I think. It’s,

[00:36:19] Rachel King: And they’re going to be out and let’s say it doesn’t work. Right? I mean, this is the scenario that I saw that was the worst, it worked beautifully. It worked beautifully for two years, and then dad started dating, but they were legally divorced and divided for two years before he started dating seriously, starts dating seriously, decides he wants to introduce the kids to this new person in his life, ultimately ends up wanting to propose but it’s no surprise that potential fiance is like, well, I want our own house. 

And so when it was brought up, mom thought it was like, well, no, we weren’t doing this. I haven’t moved on because I put our kids first and we live here. And now this other person is coming in and you’re only doing it for her. And you’re choosing her over your kids and us. And the kids have to now learn something else. And now they’re fee, getting even more negative energy, and that does happen. 

And I think, so I truly think you’re doing it now for the kids, but you’re also doing it now, uh, because it’s easier and, and maybe less expensive, but long term, it’s going to be much more expensive and be a pretty heavy emotional price.

[00:37:36] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, boundaries seem to get really blurred there. Um, yeah, yeah, um, that’s helpful. No, thank you for, for sharing that because I think it’s so confusing. You know, people, I mean, are just navigating and trying to do the best thing they possibly can. And it’s confusing to figure all this out. And I know you have a book coming out. That’s going to make it all a lot less confusing. So can you tell us about that?

[00:38:05] Rachel King: It’s called Getting Divorced, Now What? It is coming out in December of 2024, so just a few months away. It really, my goal, so I’ve practiced family law litigation for 10 years. I’m in the courtroom almost every single day, and I’ve represented hundreds, if not thousands, I’ve witnessed probably thousands or tens of thousands of people in the family law court room.

And my goal with my book is to help people understand general divorce information so that you have some kind of guidance on what’s reasonable and what is maybe a little bit more unreasonable or emotional. And then also hear other people, right? Misery loves company and that’s okay. We all want to know that we’re not alone. So I share personal case stories. I share some of the tips and tricks that I only know because I was sitting in the courtroom every single day listening to judges. 

So my goal with this book is to really hand over some information that you would not get unless you had 10 years of family law litigation experience, that nobody’s going to have because probably you’re only getting divorced once. And that it will help either you represent yourself through the court system, or if you have an attorney, it will help guide you so that you know the conversations to have with your attorney and how to choose your strategy.

Because ultimately at the end of the day, the only people that have to live with your divorce and your orders and everything that comes out of it is you. Nobody else does. The judge doesn’t, the attorneys don’t, even your kids end up moving on and creating their own lives. It stays with you forever. So you want to be as the best equipped that you can. 

Um, so you can head over to rachelkingattorney.com, register for information on my new book Getting Divorced, Now What? I hope it is helpful.

[00:40:04] Randi Rubenstein: is it available for pre order?

[00:40:07] Rachel King: It is not available for pre order, but you can get on my mailing list and I will notify you when it’s available.

[00:40:12] Randi Rubenstein: Okay, perfect. Perfect. Well, do you have any last minute do’s and don’ts of managing divorce that you want to throw in that we haven’t covered? Anything that just seems like it would just fit in beautifully to this conversation is there? Yeah.

[00:40:29] Rachel King: It is a big transition to go from romantic relationship to virtually a business relationship. And that is what the divorce process is. It is a huge roller coaster of up and downs. It’s totally normal to be in love with this person. one day hate their guts the next day and want them dead. And the next day or the next minute, even think, Oh, I really wish they were back in my house.

Uh, all of that is normal, but learning how to make that transition and giving yourself the freedom to look and create a better life, and giving them the freedom to look and create a better life, I think the key to having the most successful divorce that you can have.

[00:41:10] Randi Rubenstein: So good. I loved that. Looking ahead at the future and reminding yourself, we’re not gonna be in this stage forever. And, like this is a shitty season and we’re in it and we’re going through it and like how do I want to look back on, this season? Like what’s gonna make me feel proud of the way that I handled it, right?

Like, I think that sort of tapping into your future self, um, as an inspiration for even when, you know, cause it’s like you’re going through it, it’s gunky and there’s a lot of grief. There’s a lot of feelings, and you got kids involved. But I love that even though you didn’t say top, call it tapping into your future self, that’s what you, that’s how I heard it.

Would you agree? I don’t mean to put words. Yeah. And I loved that tip because I think that’s super helpful. So thank you. I think this was, um, a really informative and helpful conversation today. And I think it’s going to help people. So thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

[00:42:18] Rachel King: Thank you. And just remember, it’s going to be okay.

[00:42:22] Randi Rubenstein: Love it.

Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.

And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys. 

So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, super appreciative.