309: My Take On The Art of Parenting

[00:00:00] Randi Rubenstein: My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. 

Hi, everyone. How are you this week? Well, this week I am the one being interviewed. I was recently interviewed on a podcast called The Art of Parenting and we had a lovely conversation and it’s good for me. It’s good for me to introduce myself to people who have never heard of Mastermind Parenting and to be asked questions like the NICE framework, like tell us about that.

And so I kind of, you know, lifted the curtain and talked about my tongue in cheek acronym of NICE. I was asked about what is a strong willed child? So I defined what my definition is for a strong willed child and really why I use that language. Uh, I talked about one of my favorite topics, if you’ve been listening for a while, performative parenting is not best parenting and why. 

I was asked, Oh, a question that I have heard asked on many other podcasts, but I’ve never been asked it. What would I tell my younger self? So be on the lookout for that. And we just had, we had a really nice conversation. So here is me on the Art of Parenting podcast, and I hope you enjoy it.

[00:01:39] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: So Randi, I always like to get this started with asking my guest how they define the art of parenting. 

[00:01:47] Randi Rubenstein: I do think parenting is an art. Um, because when I think about art, I think about creativity, I think about, you know, if you were creating something like some kind of artistic project, we all know that the best art is when you are relaxed, you’re not overthinking it.

 You know, one of the things that I’ve been talking about a lot lately in my conversations on my podcast and with my members is there’s a lot right now that I’ve noticed, and I think it’s probably been going on for a while.

I may have even contributed to it at some point, that involves performative I, performative parenting performative peopling. Just give me the script. Just give me the three tips. Just tell me what to do. Tell me what to say and that is not artistic. 

There’s there’s, it’s like we can study parenting. And trust me when I was a young parent I was reading book after book after book and I was I was a student of parenting. But as I grew what I call my pack leadership, and as I grew my confidence and as I learned more about myself, including when I thought my kids were pushing my buttons, when I was triggered, when I all of a sudden these words were coming out of my mouth that I was never going to say and things I was never going to do. I wasn’t remembering all the things that I had read about in those moments.

[00:03:26] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Right. 

[00:03:27] Randi Rubenstein: And I started to realize there’s, there’s, there’s a reparenting process that has to, like, I have stuff that is coming up. And, and as those leadership skills grew within me and my confidence grew, I think. Think that to me that is the artistic part of parenting when you start to feel freer to be who you naturally are and not performing and trying to prove That you’re, you know, a certain kind of parent.

[00:04:03] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: No, and I really like that because it really, to me, it sounds like it’s really about being in your flow, like letting, letting you, you know, you be reparented, learn from your children and such, but not like you say, follow this, you know, perfect manual because how many children do you have? Three, so probably three very different manuals that, you know, you need to have and, and so forth. So it’s really about being in, you know, symbiosis with them and, and really letting that happen. So thank you for that. That, that was beautiful.

What is your definition of a strong willed child? I know for me, when parents come to me and say, I have a strong willed child. I often say, well, that’s wonderful because that’s somebody who knows what they want. Like, that’s great. They’re not going to, you know, be walked all over, but sometimes it can be, it can be challenging. And so I’d love to like, what is that definition for you when you say strong willed child? 

[00:05:07] Randi Rubenstein: For me, I use that definition because I don’t think, I think every parent loves their child and when we use the word, you know, it’s like, and especially for women, many of us wish we could be stronger, wish we could speak up more, wish we knew how to have boundaries, right? Like wish we knew how to stop saying yes to everything when we really want to say no. 

And so the strong willed language, I think is a way of identifying, this is not a child that is just going to go along to get along. This is a kid with a lot of leadership energy, with a lot of opinions and a strong will is not necessarily a bad thing. I think we can all agree that there’s many positives to it. 

Um, and, when we have a kid that is showing up with this strong will and combating us on everything, and they’re not cooperative, they’re not like we talked about at the beginning, when things feel artistic and we’re calm in our bodies and it’s organic and we’re in flow, they are constricted. They are tight. They are defensive. 

So we don’t want to squash their spirit because I think we understand it’s not such a bad thing to have a strong will. If you’ve got a lot of leadership energy, that’s a beautiful thing. And also, this is a family that deserves to get along and, and deserves to run smoothly and deserves to feel like a cohesive pack that is working together.

And so I kind of use that language because I find that it’s very different than if I were to say, if you’ve got a difficult kid, if you’ve got a challenging child, if you’ve, you know, like, that’s almost feels like we’re talking badly about our kids. Okay. Um, so it’s a way of identifying. We got, we, we got, we got something to figure out, but I also don’t want to squash my child’s spirit. Right. 

[00:07:10] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Right. Which makes, which makes total sense. And thank you for for that, because to me, I mean, it is a positive thing to, to have somebody, you know, who knows what they want and they’re, they’re opinionated. And, and I think that’s good, but it’s true. Sometimes it can be a little challenging. So, so yes, perfect 

Yeah, and Randi, I would love if you could share with our listeners, our viewers, a little bit about your background and how you came to do the work that you’re doing and mastering parenting, Mastermind Parenting, excuse me, and how that all came about.

[00:07:47] Randi Rubenstein: Well, it was a happy accident. 

[00:07:49] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Okay. Okay. 

[00:07:51] Randi Rubenstein: I never planned on doing this I never planned that I would still be passionate 26 years later to talk about parenting somebody. My youngest child’s about to go to college, so I’m entering in, I just heard somebody refer to this not as empty nesterhood, but as, um, open door hood. Like it’s a, I think it was Mel Robbins actually who she said, it’s like if there’s an open door. That they’re going to come and they’re going to go and they’re going to come and they’re going to go. I really like that. 

[00:08:27] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Yeah. 

[00:08:28] Randi Rubenstein: I really like that. But I had someone asked me recently, like, are you going to shift gears? Because like, does this feel relevant now that your kids are pretty much grown? And I said, I can’t get enough of these conversations. Like I could help whether it’s the parent of a teenager or the parent of what was a conversation I just had about the five year old who it’s time for the five year old to start eating in a much less picky way and to stop being bathed by mom, you know, like it’s time, like the child’s in kindergarten, it’s time to, to, to grow up a little bit. And I couldn’t, I can’t get enough of these conversations. 

I’m not a hundred percent sure why I’m so passionate about it. All I know is that I gave birth to my first child at 27 years old. I wasn’t really planning. I was married and got pregnant very quickly and wasn’t trying. So I wasn’t planning to be a mom at 27 years old. And then all of a sudden here I was and I was a mom and, um, and he cried a lot and he startled easily and he wasn’t easy at all. 

And I’m a, I’m a problem solver. I put my head down. So that’s when I started reading the books. I needed to read all the books. And my husband would say, who are you? What are you reading? And why are you acting like you’re scramming for a semester final? Like, and I’m like Are you talking to me? I’m in the middle of something like I was obsessed. And so when, yeah, obsessed. 

And, and, and really what I know now is that led to, then I took a parenting class when he was a little over three and, and I’d had another baby, um, with my husband. I basically gave my husband an ultimatum. I said, we’re either taking one of these, parenting classes, which sounds weird. That’s what he said. It sounds weird. Or we’re like going to some kind of therapy. We got to do something. 

Now I believe in both. I think everybody should have both in their lives. But at the time that sounded crazy to me. And he was like, uh, I guess parenting class. So we took a six week parenting class and it taught me some things. And, and then before you know it, I learned, you know, some other things and it taught me some things. And my kid went from through different difficult stages, um, but for the most part, I was really on a mission to take this child and make him happy. And so while I had the best of intentions, I didn’t realize how much sort of codependency and control was on the scene.

[00:11:27] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Yeah. Yeah. Right. 

[00:11:28] Randi Rubenstein: Right. And, um, and I really think he’s now 26. And, um, we’re very close. He’s thriving. He’s like a launched adult, you know, and a grown man and has a job and went to college and did all the things. And I went on to have two other kids. And I, I really think in many ways I grew up alongside him and, um, and I, and, you know, in 26 years is a long time that I’ve been doing this and, um, and over the course of, of his life so far, I went through when I’m, I’m the kind of person if like, I found some amazing shoes that were a deal at, you know, one of the discount stores. I’m like, you know, I have to tell everyone else about these amazing shoes. Like I’m not gonna, I’m not a hoarder. I want to share the wealth. 

So I didn’t realize I was sort of a natural teacher. And, um, and so I started, so everything I was learning that was, you know, stage by stage transforming my life, my family, my child, myself, I was sharing it with other people and, um, and I started, I got into the parent education space accidentally. Um, I was training teachers. accidentally on classroom management, on their most difficult kids in their classroom, the kids that lead to a lot of teacher burnout. 

And I knew pretty early on because I was so passionate about, about these concepts, but also teaching through the real stories of what was happening in these different teachers classrooms, what was happening in my family, what was happening in the families you know, without naming names of the parents who are taking my classes.

And um, at first I bought a curriculum way back when, and I was really had translated this curriculum that was designed for teachers as an academic program. And I translated it into parenting language because I was learning all these amazing concepts. And I was, you know, using them in my household and seeing how valuable, but ultimately I had to create, I had to trademark my own method because it’s like, you know, many, many years, it’s like a poo poo platter of methods.

I mean, I learned things from Brene Brown. I learned things from, you know, the coach that I ended up getting trained by Martha Beck. I, I learned, I learned so much along the way. And so, And then my own real life stories, um, and then the clients that I worked with. 

So now I have my method, which is called mastermind parenting, and it really is just, you know, how do we as the adults sort of, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a lofty goal, but master our own minds, right? Master our own minds. Rather than trying to, like I did so, you know, early on, rather than trying to mastermind and control our kids. What, what happens when we look in the mirror and focus on us, right? 

[00:14:45] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: And so, so important because I mean, I think most guests that I have on the show are, it’s always about, you know, it comes back to us like the child is just putting a mirror up to us. And, and you know, how do we, cause they come to us pure and, and, and eager to learn and, and all of this. So it’s like, we can’t have expectations of them knowing what to do. And, and we have to, I love that. 

And I love the, the, the parallel with, I kind of did the same thing. I went, I actually went back to get a master’s when I was a 40 some in Montessori education. And I was so blown away by it. Everything that I was learning, uh, about children, about development, about how, you know, we could create these environments for our children that I then wanted to share with the parents, because the parents were always coming to me, you know, when I was in the classroom as to why their children were so different at home than they were in, in the Montessori environment. 

So, um, you know, I love what you say. Like when we, when we have a good deal, we want to share it. And that’s exactly it. It’s like, when we, when we figure out like, Oh my gosh, this, this really works. You know, we want to, to share it with, with the world. So, so beautiful. Uh, thank you for all that 

[00:16:10] Randi Rubenstein: big fan. I’m a, yeah. I’m a big fan of Montessori and there’s a lot of consistencies with what I teach and my methodology and Montessori education. Um, you know, the thing that always frustrates me is when, when I recommend you know, for a parent to, to look at a Montessori school and they say, oh, well, my child needs more structure.

[00:16:34] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: It’s the most structured environment ever. With, with, with, with creativity. It’s, we call it freedom within limits, you know. Yeah. You can be free within this context and yeah, that’s funny. 

[00:16:50] Randi Rubenstein: It’s like, it’s like that combination of firm and loving. It’s structure. It, to me, it is art because it’s like, you know, reading the room, like little kids, I mean, all, all human beings, we thrive when we have some structure in our lives, even when we don’t completely leave it because it’s certain, it’s certainty. And so when you have a little kid that comes to school and they know from this time to this time, this is what we do. And this is the work that we play with.

And when we, you know, or we work on and when we’re, and they get to. And their work is really how kids are intended to work, which is through play so much of the time. And, and then, you know, and I mean, I loved when my kids were in Montessori where it’s like you see all these little teeny tiny people and they go and they take out their little rugs, you know, and that’s what they put their, their work on. And I’m like, there’s, you know, it’s so beautiful because they’re just so capable and they get to feel so capable. I loved that structure. 

[00:17:52] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: And it’s a structure to me, and we’ll stop there, but it’s a structure around the kind of the natural self discipline that I think we all develop if we’re given a freedom to do so, right, that we’re not being controlled, that we’re, we’re just giving the boundaries and the guidance.

And, and I mean, the classroom I had was just a delight because it’s true when children are engaged in purposeful. intelligent work, they’re happy, they’re serene, they’re, they’re generous, they’re content. And it just, you know, makes for wonderful. Wonderful, wonderful days. 

 So back to your, kind of your method, method, mastermind parenting. I know you have kind of a framework that you call NICE. Would you be able to share just a little bit, kind of an overview of it to, to intrigue us as to what that’s all about? 

[00:18:52] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. So the, uh, when people come and work with me, they go through our foundational program, we call it our basics and I teach them. You know, I like acronyms because I think acronyms are easy to remember and I specifically like hokey acronyms or tongue in cheek because I think it helps the brain because it’s novel, it’s creative and it helps the brain to remember.

So I came up with the NICE acronym for when people come to me because everyone comes and they say, I was a strong willed kid, how do I get them to. you know, be more cooperative. How do I get them to listen to me? How do I get them to respect me more? How do I get them to stop being so difficult? Now, there’s not lots of nice ways we sugarcoat that, but it’s really like once everyone feels comfortable, it’s like, but why won’t they listen?

And they just won’t, you know, a lot of times I’ll, I’ll, I write about this. Like, like if you have a kid that just won’t, you ask them to do something and they’re like, no. And, or they ignore you, right? So it’s the kid that just won’t, the kid that seems defiant, the kid that just, and I’m like, well, well, we got to diagnose what the real issue is.

So we’re going to, we’re going to attack the situation like we’re scientists. And this is our framework, right? Because you are the pack leader that you’ve got this little pack and you’re the leader and you’re going to figure out what’s the real issue. Quite often people come and they think the real issue, and I think this kind of ties back to the Montessori thing, which is like, I just like, it’s almost like, I just got a, I just got a toughy, you know, like I just, I just got a hard kid. They just came out like this. 

And so the NICE framework helps me to take parents through sort of the re education process. It’s not that you got a toughie. It’s not that I got a toughie. Now, if I compared my oldest son to his younger siblings as a newborn, there was a lot of moments, there was more to figure out, but the bottom line was, was he just was a highly sensitive person.

He just had a sensitive nervous system and that startle reflex was very strong. So what did he really need when he was a baby? Well, that was before they had those little swaddle contraptions. And that was before Um, you know, that was before we knew that kids that have an extra sensitive nervous system who have that startle response so strong, that’s their temperament. Maybe he was feeding off of me of, Oh my gosh, I’m 27 years old. 

[00:21:43] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: I was going to say, and you were, you were a new parent, you were a young new parent. That’s a lot. Yeah. 

[00:21:50] Randi Rubenstein: You know, what’s the chicken and what’s the egg. All I know is that his temperament from the beginning was definitely much more sensitive, especially than his youngest, you know, sibling, my, my son, that’s about to go to college, who was super chill from the beginning, you know, so maybe they would have had different temperaments. Maybe it was affected by birth order. I don’t freaking know. 

But when people come to me, I’m like, okay, let’s start learning about our, you know, what’s really going on with your kid. So we go through and the first, you know, three weeks they, they, we teach them about needs, basic needs. Okay. That’s the N.

[00:22:33] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Okay. 

[00:22:33] Randi Rubenstein: Okay. And basic needs, a lot of, a lot of what I talk about in terms of basic needs is just like as human beings. What do we need to survive, right? We need food and water. We need sleep. We need sleep. I mean, obviously we need shelter and all those things, but we need food, water. We need shelter. We need sleep. We need connection. Right. We are pack animals. No, human beings are not the same as octopus. Like we have to, we have to be in connection with other human beings. So we really go through and we’re assessing basic needs. 

So usually the very beginning, the first three weeks, we’re cleaning up a lot of sleep for 90 percent of the people.

[00:23:23] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Interesting. 

[00:23:24] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. There’s just some sleep hygiene that, and it’s not just for the kids. It’s for the parents too because I don’t know about you, but I am definitely not keeping my cool when somebody’s acting all out of sorts when I’m sleep deprived, right? I’m much better when I’m well rested. So we talk about basic needs for the big people and the little people. 

And then, and then we start to go through the next, the next wing of the framework. We investigate and we start to, they start to learn all behaviors communication. So if I’ve got a kid that seems like they just start their day just from a place of they just won’t, they just won’t. No matter what we say, there’s something to figure out. 

Sometimes there may be, um, some, you know, a kid that is like, I, like one of my favorite stories that from years and years ago was a mom who came to me whose kid was in first grade and, um, she had taken a sabbatical from work because every day she was just waiting for the principal’s office to call and he was just like a disaster at school. And she, the, the day she finally called me was he was under his desk growling like an animal like threatening to bite the teacher and now he’s in the principal’s office and she needs to come and pick him up and she’s like, I don’t I don’t know what to do. So there was some real investigation. 

Well, guess what we found out I mean, yes we had a lot to clean up in terms of basic needs in the household and and adding more structure and you know mom had had A lot of travel with work and so there hadn’t been, you know, it had been kind of fly by the seat of the pants and so we had some structure and different things to put in place. Um, but what we found was this little child had dysgraphia. 

And so, so once we really investigated, I said, I think there’s something more. Um, and what we realized was he was showing his absolute worst behavior at school when it was time to write in their journal in first grade to write these sentences. And I mean, this poor kid, you know, he was like getting, you know, he was going to get admonished when he didn’t do, he was refusing to do the journal because he literally like could not do it. 

[00:25:55] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Yeah. 

[00:25:55] Randi Rubenstein: Then he was going to get in trouble at home and he was going to get in trouble with teacher and he, he went into a survival state. He’s, he’s under the desk growling like an animal. 

And I mean, I think he’s now in, he’s now in high school and every once in a while run into the mom and she like, she like went on to start a school because she was this just amazing woman that she was like, if my, I mean, what we were going through, all that I learned, I got to help all the other kids out there who are going through so much. 

We really spend some time investigating whether it’s patterns that we need to disrupt within the family that we’ve just been in these combative negative attention seeking patterns. That’s sometimes it, or you know, maybe there’s an intense sibling fighting situation that might be part of it. And sometimes there is a learning difference. There is something to figure out. 

And then when we move into the C wing of NICE. I teach them about what I call pack leadership really as women, I think most, I think our, I think cultures, um, well in America, I don’t know that this is necessarily the case in France, right. But in America and other places, but in America, I think that quite often when many women, when we were little girls, we were sent messages that were what I call unpacked leadership, you know, just be nice.

That’s also why I call it the nice framework because we’re telling our kids constantly be nice, be nice, be nice. And we’re barking at them and we’re being the opposite of nice. And I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m like, I don’t really want to learn new things or feel, I don’t feel like someone’s on my team rooting for me if they’re being mean to me.

Um, you know, and kids are egocentric, so they’re not thinking that they’re being mean, they’re looking to their adult to sort of model the behavior that they see, right? So that’s my tongue in cheek way. It’s like we, and I teach all the parents like pack leadership. When we communicate the C wing is how we communicate with pack leadership and empathy. And empathy is really, we’re going to take into consideration, like what’s going on with our kid? Who is this little person? What kind of day have they had? We’re going to read the room, right? 

So when you start to tell your kids all the ways that they need to improve after a long day of school, when they’re completely out of batteries, You know, that’s not your, your, your best moment. That’s, that’s not you being the with it human that you are and all these other situations of life. You’re not reading the room. You’re not understanding. Your kid can’t even take that in. And all you’re going to do is push them into a defensive place. 

So we learn how to communicate with strong leadership and we learn also how to be assertive, because as little girls, we were taught to say things real sweet and be real nice. 

[00:29:02] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Not to offend anybody. 

[00:29:03] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, no offense. And we’re saying, you know, is that okay? And we say, okay, when we’re really actually not asking a question and we’re asking permission all the time. And these little tiny people. They’re literal. And if you’re asking them if it’s okay with them to take a bath and they’re busy playing, no, not okay. They’re going to keep doing what they want to do. Like, you got to learn some better communication skills as a pack leader. So I teach them that. 

And then the last part of the NICE Framework, we get to the part that everybody comes in asking me about, which is, well, just when do we get to do the consequences? Like, you know, they’re all so happy that I’m not, you know, I, I am not gentle parenting. I do believe that I think there’s a lot of beautiful things about gentle parenting. And also somebody sent me a meme a few years ago that said, um, gentle parenting is for gentle kids. My kid, I’m raising a gangster. I, I said, you know, we, I do believe in consequences, but I believe in consequences the right way.

And it is actually very rare that we have to get to consequences. We, when we assess basic needs, investigate behavior, communicate with pack leadership and empathy, if we have a recurring issue, like a kid who just keeps forgetting to bring their homework folder to school, or a kid that is having such a hard time getting off the screen when they’re you know, when their allotted time is over, or a kid that is showing up with a lot of violence towards their sibling, um, or really any violence towards their sibling on a consistent basis. When we have a kid that will benefit from a consequence, then we enforce a consequence. But we go through a lot before we get to that point. 

And sometimes we do need a consequence, but we don’t do it in a jerky way. We, there’s a way, there’s a, there’s a beautiful art to being a nice parent when you’re enforcing a consequence.

[00:31:15] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: So all, all wonderful. I mean, I love that we, you know, go through the basic needs, which I think is always so important. I know when I work with. with parents, we, you know, I always talk about the universal needs of children and so forth. So that’s, that’s very important. Investigate is kind of that observing, seeing what’s going on and, and being, being aware communicating as well. Enforce. So this is where I have, I need a little bit more, I guess, guidance in that. 

[00:31:47] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. 

[00:31:47] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: I am the mindset that consequences I feel sometimes have been misused or misunderstood because they don’t have anything to do with the actual situation sometimes. You know, it’s like, if you don’t eat your spinach, we’re not going to go to the park. It’s like, what does that got to do with? So I’d love if we could, could understand a little bit more when you say enforcing consequences, it’s like. Um, what does that really mean and, and how is that going to be helpful to the child? 

[00:32:22] Randi Rubenstein: So the word enforce is a strong word, but to me enforce is following through, which is hard. That’s why I think so many parents find themselves. If you do that one more time, you know, we’re threatening, but when we’re enforcing, we’re just following through. We’re just keeping our promises. We’re just doing the thing that we said we were going to do. Right. 

Consequences, look natural consequences are the best consequences and the enforcing of consequences when it was, let’s say it’s about the kid who’s forgetting to bring their homework to school. Okay. And you, you know, you, this has been a recurring issue. So we’re always talking about what’s the plan and what’s the consequence. Out of the moment.

Okay. We don’t do it for the first time. The first time they, and the C wing of my nice framework is we communicate with pack leadership and empathy. Well, in that wing, I teach my productive conversation method. Okay. So when occurring issue, right? There’s a, we’re scientists. We’re going through this nice framework. We’ve got this problem that we’re trying to solve. Like my kid is forgetting to bring their homework folder to school or home from school or whatever it is. Okay. 

So here’s the problem. Forgetting the homework. Not being responsible for the homework. We know it’s a recurring issue. We’ve, we, we’re like, okay, is it, is it a basic needs thing now? It’s not. We’re good. We’re moving and grooving there. I’ve investigated the behavior. Yeah. Maybe I’ve got a kid that’s got a, you know, they’re, they’ve got shiny objects, you know, like swirl and out of sight, out of mind. And they’re just, they haven’t developed those executive functioning skills, um, yet. They just have, don’t have a system yet for, you know, remembering to bring the homework home and taking the homework to school. 

Um, so now I’m going to communicate and I’m going to go through and have a productive conversation with them. And so we have a conversation and they, we, we, we, we, I have, you know, a whole framework that I teach, which is basically like we just meet the kid where they are, which is I’ve well, you’ve got a lot going on. You’re in fourth grade, you’re playing soccer, you’re making friends, you’ve homework started to ramp up, you’re still a little kid in many ways at heart. You got a lot going on. It’s hard to keep up with everything, right? 

So we’re, we’re, we’re not saying. You know, you’ve been really irresponsible when it comes to, and I’m sick of bringing this up to school. And it’s not that, it’s just meeting your kid where they are. They have a lot going on for whatever reason. And then you go through and you come up with the plan and you’re problem solving the plan together. What do you think would help you be more help, you know, would help you to remember that? What, what kind of system, what are your ideas? And you, and you really understand as, as this effective pack leader, you are truly problem solving with your kid. You’re not lecturing to them.

So after we spent all this time doing that, at the end of that productive conversation, we’ve got our plan. We’re like, okay, so, okay, and this is the PS, the PS is the consequences. The PS, you know, it’s not the main conversation. The main conversation is problem solving together. And, and so when we get to the PS, we’re like, so what happens if, oops, oops, oops. You, you, you know, you planned on remembering the whole homework folder. You did the whole plan. You had the system. It was right, you know, on your desk with your backpack there. You know, every morning I’m going to take it off my desk, I’m going to put it in my backpack and I’m going to go and get to school and it’s not there. Then what? What do you think happens then? 

And your kid might go call you from the office and you bring it to me like you normally do. And you’re like, that’s what we’re not doing anymore. If you forget the homework, then you have to deal with the consequence of whatever your teacher, maybe she only will dock partial. Maybe she’ll give you partial credit. If you bring in the next day, I don’t know, but that’s going to be your business. And so even if you call me from the office, just know. 

Now I had a rule that once a semester, especially as my kids got older, once a semester, you get out, you get a jail, get out of jail free card one, one time. And so if they called me and they were like, I was like, okay, so you’re using your one get out of jail free card for me to bring it up there because just know, is this assignment that important that you want to use that chip? And I’ve had kids that are like, no, it’s, no, she’s going to, she’s just going to take 10 points off. I can bring it in tomorrow. Right? So that would be a natural consequence is you let your kid be without the homework and deal with the repercussions. 

[00:37:33] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Right. Right. 

[00:37:34] Randi Rubenstein: Now, sometimes we have to enforce a consequence that, you know, it’s like we’ve got a kid that’s showing up violently with their siblings. They’re having a real hard time with impulse control. And even though you have amazing productive conversations, and even though they’re not in this defense zone place with you, their younger sibling, it’s just a strong pattern. It’s combative. They feel it. Find themselves losing it and they’re hitting their sibling. They’re doing something and you know This is something that I’m gonna have to enforce a consequence and it needs to be Logical and related. 

[00:38:10] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Right, 

right. So

[00:38:11] Randi Rubenstein: if you have a kid that’s you’ve got a no violence policy and your kid, you know kicks their sibling or whatever and then you say that’s it, no dessert tonight That’s not logical or related. It’s not, it’s not. And kids are super logical. And, um, and if you, if you take the time to have these conversations out of the moment, they actually, like they’re, they get it. Especially like we are, this family is amazing. We love each other too much. This has to be a safe zone for everyone. We’re your team. We are a pack. Right. It, there’s absolutely no violence happening. 

And if you have an oops, because it’s hard to live with people, it is, it’s hard to live with people. Okay. I get it. Y’all get on each other’s nerves sometimes. And if you have an oops where you forget to say, I need some space. I’m walking away. I didn’t like it when you grabbed that thing or did that thing. When you forget your words and you go to the violent hands or the violent words, just know for one week we will not be having any playdates. I need to make sure that this house is a safe zone first and foremost for all of the people who live here before it’s gonna feel okay for you to go to other people’s houses or to have other, bring other people here. 

[00:39:39] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Right, right. 

[00:39:40] Randi Rubenstein: This is a very important, you know, I, I take this very seriously, this, this family matters a lot and it needs to feel safe for everyone. 

[00:39:47] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: And that is relatable because it’s about the behavior that, you know, could be risky for other children. Yes. No, makes total sense. And it was, you know, I was in agreement, but I was, I was being kind of the devil’s advocate for you to, to love it because I often think that, you know, there has to be consequences. 

And sometimes it’s like, well, there’s a natural consequence. You know, the child forgets to take their lunch. Well, they’re going to be hungry. They’re going to have to ask for, you know, to, eat something out of somebody else or ask the teacher if she has extra snack, like they’ll figure it out. And I think that’s also like life lessons of how, how to manage disappointments and so far. 

This has been delightful and I love what you’ve, you know, from your experience and your learning, just put together something that is very, Um, tangible for for many families. So thank you for that. 

And to wrap it up, I would love if you could go back to that young 27 year old that was expecting their first child. Um, so you say you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re eldest is 26. So going back to 20, 27 years ago of what wise words would you tell yourself knowing all that you know today?

[00:41:06] Randi Rubenstein: I want to, I will say it was a conversation I just had with my 18 year old. 

[00:41:11] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Oh, okay. 

[00:41:11] Randi Rubenstein: Um, today. 

[00:41:13] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Okay. 

[00:41:14] Randi Rubenstein: Uh, I was driving him to the airport. He’s going to visit his college roommate to go on a hiking trip, get to know each other. And we were talking about, um, something and he asked me about the early stages of life.

And I said. And for, I, I actually think he was talking about one of our dogs and I said, so much happens during the early, early years of life, like the light, the, the years that most of us don’t remember, right? We, we, we do have a memory in our bodies, but we don’t consciously remember. And I said, if there is anything I can impart on you, it is that one day when you have children, if you have a wife that you have children with, um, understand that she deserves like a full partner and full support. I said, because when I was, you know, all those years ago, I said the difference between when I had you and when I had Alec, I said, by the time I had you, I was older and I knew some things and I knew I deserved support. 

And I was, he was asking me a lot of questions about the early stages. And I said, it is way too much on one person to be sleep deprived, to be feeding a baby every two to three hours at night. And then, you know, to be alone during the day and it’s just not the way human beings were ever designed to live or be, or in, I said, it was, it was lonely. It was hard. There was so much to learn. 

I, I said, so, by the time he goes, well, what was so different when I came around? I said, well, I hired a nighttime doula for every couple of nights who came in and I had, I did it where I could sleep for six hours every third night. And that was a savior. And, um, I had a lot of help and support and, um, and it wasn’t all on me. And I said, and I just didn’t know that I could have that when I had Alec and I was, I was, I really felt alone a lot. And, um, and he was like, so like get the baby and bring the, I was like, yeah, like you, like realizing this is not all on the, the mom of the baby, you’re going to be a dad one day and this is your baby too.

And, um, and so I would say I would have had, I would have known that. It was never supposed to be all on me and me acting like, Oh, I, you know, this is just natural. This is just, you know, my maternal instinct and I can put up with scraps. Like I’m freaking exhausted, but I would have had the self worth to advocate for way more support for myself.

[00:44:28] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Wonderful. Thank you. So all of you listening who are maybe in the early stages of parenting or expecting, please, those are very, very important words of wisdom because parenting was never meant to be done alone. So, uh, I love that. Thank you. 

[00:44:45] Randi Rubenstein: I’ll say this, say this about the, the, it was interesting because my husband is wonderful and, um, it really is. And, and we’ve grown up together a lot during this whole process. And he said, well, why, why wasn’t dad more helpful? And I said, you know what? Both of us were raised in misogynistic households and we didn’t know yet what we didn’t know. And now we know different. 

[00:45:12] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Yeah. 

[00:45:12] Randi Rubenstein: Both of us know different.

[00:45:14] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: Yeah. No. And I will say that I’m, I’m also a birth doula and I actually just spend 2 nights with a little infant the other night to give mom a break because she’s a single mom. But I will say that I have witnessed a really beautiful evolution in parenting where the fathers of the babies are way, way more involved during the birth, during the newborn care, during pregnancy. And it’s, it’s really beautiful to see there is you’re, you’re, you’re raising sons that know we’ll know that, uh, down the road. So that’s wonderful. Thank you, Randi. Randi, any parting words that you would like to leave our listeners and viewers with today?

[00:45:57] Randi Rubenstein: I, you know, the, like I said, that topic of performative parenting is very much, uh, on my mind. And I think with all of the, you know, social media and how much time everyone spends on social media and all the clips and tips and, and, you know, while there is some really decent information. I want everyone to realize a big part of the art of parenting is that we are messy humans and sometimes we’re gonna, sometimes you’re gonna yell at your kids sometimes you’re gonna say things that you swore you weren’t gonna say. 

And and I think breaking up with perfectionism and thinking, I knew better, I’ve been studying like, and I’m really speaking to younger me too here. It’s like, you get to be a human and sometimes we’re going to mess it all up. And we just get back on the horse the next day. Yeah, and we put in and there’s this beautiful thing We can repair by saying well that was scary. I’m really did I scare you? I’m really sorry for doing that 

[00:47:08] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: No, 

[00:47:09] Randi Rubenstein: I like yeah, come here. Can we hug it out too soon? Can we hug it out? Great like you can repair by owning it And just being an imperfect, messy human and knowing that like your kids are going to have lots of, especially if you’ve got a strong willed one, they’re going to have a lot of imperfect, messy human moments. And that’s what truly connects people is when I get to be me and you get to be you and we get to mess it all up and then we come back together.

[00:47:38] Jeanne-Marie Paynel: So true. So true. Thank you so much. This has been a delightful conversation and I really appreciate your, your time today. Thank you. 

[00:47:46] Randi Rubenstein: Thanks for having me. This is great.

Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.

And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys. 

So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, super appreciative.