313: Is It Ever Too Late To Change?

[00:00:00] Randi Rubenstein: My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. 

Hi, everyone. Welcome to this week. I am here again with my daughter, Avery Rubenstein,

[00:00:18] Avery Rubenstein: Hi everyone.

[00:00:18] Randi Rubenstein: There’s, if you’re watching the video, the 200 people who actually watch the video on YouTube. I have just a little tiny baby here in my lap, a little cold, cozy baby,

[00:00:32] Avery Rubenstein: She does look exactly like a little infant right now.

[00:00:35] Randi Rubenstein: Doesn’t she? Her name’s Hazel, for anybody listening on audio. Hazel’s here with me, our little freckled Frenchie, and she was cold, so now she’s on my lap, wrapped up in a little blanket. What do you say these dogs are?

[00:00:49] Avery Rubenstein: What, your children now that you’re an empty nester?

[00:00:51] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, somebody told me that you said they’re my mom’s replacement children.

[00:00:55] Avery Rubenstein: Oh, I did say that. 

[00:00:56] Randi Rubenstein: I thought was pretty accurate. um, okay, so I wanted Avery to come on, um, really just cause I thought it’d be fun to catch up and to let you guys be a fly on the wall of one of our catch up conversations. And we would, we catch up all the time, but we haven’t really I don’t think that we’ve recapped winter break. Um, Oh, there was also, I just saw a whole, we love, we love to watch reels and to share reels back and forth. And I just watched a hilarious Modern Family reel.

[00:01:35] Avery Rubenstein: I love that show.

[00:01:36] Randi Rubenstein: I should play for the listeners. 

[00:01:39] Avery Rubenstein: I watched that show all the way through and then I got to the last episode and I restarted it. I love that show.

[00:01:45] Randi Rubenstein: Don’t, didn’t you say there was like things about that show that reminded you of our family or something? Or maybe everyone feels that way.

[00:01:53] Avery Rubenstein: Very much, it reminded me of our family.

[00:01:56] Randi Rubenstein: Um, we have a big gay component to our family. Um, okay. 

Whoever made our son cry has messed with the wrong moms.

[00:02:05] Avery Rubenstein: Lesbians.

[00:02:06] Randi Rubenstein: Lesbians. While often lumped together, gay men and lesbians have less in common than one might think. Like in the Venn diagram of sexual identity. You have gay men and straight men. Both the same gender. Then you have gay men and straight women. Both attracted to the same gender. But gay men and lesbians? Nothing. 

I am so sorry we have to meet like this, but I’m sure you can understand as parents the instinct to protect your child. Yeah, it’s what makes me want to punch you in the neck right now. Wow, I see where your son gets all of his aggression. Okay, let’s all take a timeout. That’s a good idea. This is getting a little heated. Yeah, Pam, we don’t want another incident like at the lumberyard. Oh my god, you guys go to the lumberyard too? I didn’t know they had a ladies night. Not the bar, Sally. Okay, you know what? He’s trying to be nice, and you just called him Sally. Yeah, you’re not being very helpful, Peppermint Patty. Let’s just ignore Ashley. Enough. I’m gonna give you a little homework assignment. I want you and your kids to have a family play date. Maybe if the four of you can get along, you can set a better example for your children. I think that’s a wonderful idea, Pam. Cam fine. We’ll host, obviously. Obviously. Well, I assume you have an unfinished woodworking project at your house. You’ve got a lot of nerves. Yeah. You’ve got half canoe in our living room. I look forward to your frittata. Oh, why are you visiting us in 2008? Whoever 

[00:03:35] Avery Rubenstein: Can you believe he’s straight in real life?

[00:03:39] Randi Rubenstein: Ugh, that fratata line 

[00:03:41] Avery Rubenstein: He plays it, he plays a gay man so well.

[00:03:46] Randi Rubenstein: I mean, pepper, and then what did he say?

[00:03:49] Avery Rubenstein: No, Peppermint, he’s like, whatever you say, Peppermint Patty. That episode is so funny.

[00:03:55] Randi Rubenstein: Peppermint Patty was so gay.

[00:03:58] Avery Rubenstein: It is such a funny 

[00:03:59] Randi Rubenstein: mean, just things that weren’t on my radar when I was a kid. Like my two gay siblings weren’t on my radar and Peppermint Patty being gay was not on my radar either. I don’t think it was on, no, it 

[00:04:12] Avery Rubenstein: My god, Peppermint Patty is such a les. 

[00:04:15] Randi Rubenstein: wasn’t the thing I was thinking about.

[00:04:17] Avery Rubenstein: guess that’s fair. I probably didn’t think about it then either, but I didn’t watch Charlie Brown as a kid.

[00:04:23] Randi Rubenstein: No, no, there was better, there was better cartoons

[00:04:26] Avery Rubenstein: We had better options, I think.

[00:04:29] Randi Rubenstein: for sure. It’s probably why I don’t like cartoons because the options just weren’t great when I was growing up.

[00:04:35] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, you’d like them now, because we’ve shown you. How to Train Your dragon? 

[00:04:42] Randi Rubenstein: They seem so realistic. I mean, those,

[00:04:45] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm. 

[00:04:46] Randi Rubenstein: those do. okay. So some of the thoughts, some of the things I was thinking about for this conversation were, um, breaking down our vacation, our family vacation, over winter break. Um, because there’s been a lot of vacation drama, um, as people come back from vacation with their little kids and realize it’s not a vacation. Most of the time it’s just a trip and they had all these hopes and dreams and then it was a freaking nightmare. And so, 

[00:05:21] Avery Rubenstein: Just dealing with your family in another location.

[00:05:23] Randi Rubenstein: yeah, exactly. Exactly. Probably less helpers around than you normally have, or thinking you’re going to have more helpers because you’re with extended family and then being disappointed that they’re really not that helpful and actually making you feel judged every time your kid, your exhausted kid who’s traveling and dealing with a different time zone is melting down, whining, freaking out. It’s stressful. Stressful to travel with little kids. 

Um, but it’s not stressful to travel. Well, not for me. It’s not stressful to travel with your young adult kids. Was it stressful to you to travel with us?

[00:06:06] Avery Rubenstein: No. Not at all. We also had a very, um, structured trip, especially like the majority of it, where it was like, cause we were on that Backroads trip and it was like every day was planned. We got really lucky. I think. I honestly think we would have been just as happy if the other families on the trip sucked, because we’re really good at common enemy intimacy. It’s kind of our family’s bread and butter. 

[00:06:30] Randi Rubenstein: We’ll tell, tell everyone what Backroads is. Cause they might not know.

[00:06:34] Avery Rubenstein: Backroads is like this organization that takes people on trips around the world, and they, it’s like adventure trips. I think some of them are more resorty, but like, hiking, biking, um, we kayaked. Like, they just kind of have it planned out. They have an itinerary. They make delicious food and different families. This was like a more of like an, um, older kid family trip, but they’ll do like singles trips, couples trips, family trips for little kids.

 I became friends with one of the trip leaders and I was asking her, I was like, are all the people that sign up for this trip, like, usually as awesome? Because we got so lucky, every family that was with us was fantastic. And she was like, no, like, this is by far the best group I’ve ever been with. Like,

[00:07:17] Randi Rubenstein: Really? We won?

[00:07:19] Avery Rubenstein: Kat said that by far our trip was the most enjoyable, simply because the people on it were wonderful. And I was like, are you just, You know, blowin smoke, and she was like, no, I’m serious.

[00:07:31] Randi Rubenstein: Well, y’all actually did become friends. She’s 

[00:07:34] Avery Rubenstein: hmm.

[00:07:35] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. She was not much older than you. They were trying to recruit Avery to become a backload, Backroads 

[00:07:41] Avery Rubenstein: They kept saying I should be a Backroads leader.

[00:07:44] Randi Rubenstein: Um,

[00:07:45] Avery Rubenstein: and talking loud enough for me to overhear with each other like, wouldn’t she be such a good Backroads leader? First of all, I wouldn’t. I’m horrible at taking care of people.

[00:07:53] Randi Rubenstein: Well, I think you learned, I mean, that’s what I was thinking was they were so impressive. 25, 26 year old who are trip leaders and we just, we felt so cared for. And I mean, they were so, I was like, after doing a trip like this, like what job couldn’t you do? I

[00:08:12] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, they did not seem their age.

[00:08:15] Randi Rubenstein: It was, it’s a lot to manage and did a fantastic job.

So, the backstory is we like to take a trip during winter break. Mostly what spurs me into planning a trip. I’m not the greatest planner is that I hate planning. I hate being in town for my birthday. And so it’s really my way of isolating and just being with the people I want to be with on my birthday, which is my little family.

So I, so I started playing, so I was like, we’re going to take a Backroads trip. And in my not detail, super like impulsive way, I looked, I saw that there was a cool trip to Patagonia and I asked the family group chat who wants to go to Patagonia, sent the little brochure, all the kids were like, in, in, in. 

[00:09:12] Avery Rubenstein: It’s like my dream destination.

[00:09:13] Randi Rubenstein: so I put down a deposit. And then it was time to plan, you know, to do the adulting. You know, the, the beautiful thing about a Backroads trip is you get to, you get to show up and be a child. Like, they feed you, like, all you have to do is get yourself there. They do all the details and they kind of pride themselves on that, like, making sure you’ve got the right food and the snacks and the itinerary and the activities.

And for moms, cause like, vacations and kids being off school, like, there’s a lot of mom shit that comes along with that. It’s exhausting. I’m telling you, Christmas rolls around, I might have been, had Christmas envy as a kid. I do not have Christmas envy as a mom. It is, it’s a lot of work. So anyway, so I’m like, we’re doing a Backroads trip cause I am feeling extra lazy this year. So I definitely don’t want to do any planning. 

So put the deposit down on Patagonia. Then it’s time for the adulting, which is how do you get to Patagonia and looking at all those details. And that’s where Avery’s dad, Scott comes in. And he does those details is very detail oriented, very type a and, um, immediately he starts peeing in our Cheerios and telling us that it’s very hard to get to Patagonia. +It’s going to eat up two days of travel there, two days of travel back. We don’t have that much time. It’s just not the kind of trip that you take when you have a limited amount of time for winter break and blah,

[00:10:51] Avery Rubenstein: And normally, normally we’ll steamroll him when he tries to be a naysayer, because it’s kind of his specialty, but he was actually right in this case.

[00:11:00] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. So at first. I did start to steamroll him, but then he’s wise. He’s wise to our steamrolling ways. So he’s like, so he gets the travel agent from Backroads involved. And so then I see the exchanges with her where she basically confirms what Patagonia. And, um, and so once I start to see that, you know, it’s not gonna work. So then I realized I’ve put this deposit down so I have to choose somewhere that’s easier to get to and yada, yada, yada, we ended up going to Hawaii. Which is not, you know, it’s not a quick trip Texas, but it’s not, it’s not a Patagonia, two days of travel.

[00:11:49] Avery Rubenstein: It’s not too bad of a consolation prize, like, Oh no, Hawaii. It’s pretty awesome.

[00:11:54] Randi Rubenstein: Right. And I was like, you know, it wasn’t like we were like, we are dying to go to Hawaii, but it was like, it doesn’t suck to go to Hawaii. We’re going go to Hawaii. So, so we go to Hawaii. So we decide that we’re going to do the Backroads part. And then on the big island, and then we’re going to go and spend, you know, a few days in Kauai, just like rent a little house and, um, and Avery’s older brother couldn’t, couldn’t get that much time off work. So he’s not going to come to the Backroads part. It’s just going to be my two younger kids, me and Scott on the Backroads part. And then we’ll all convene in Kauai after Backroads. 

So it’s funny that you say it was so structured because really, it was completely planned in the laziest way down to once we were on the Backroads part, I started realizing, oh, well, when this part’s over, then we go over to Kauai. And I all of a sudden realized, Oh shit, this trip ends on Christmas. And then we go, we fly over to Kauai on Christmas and everything’s closed on Christmas and we’re renting an Airbnb. We’re not going to be in a hotel. What are we going to eat on Christmas day? Like just knowing we’re going to get there and we’re going to be moving into this little house and we’re not going to have any food.

So I start scrambling. I start trying to do a grocery order. And Kauai’s a tiny town, so it’s not like, you know, there’s a lot of options. And so thank God, the Airbnb landlord was super nice and accommodating. And she did the grocery shopping for me the day before and got in the house. And we were still scrambling to try and find a reservation for Christmas night. 

And I said, you know, worse comes to worse. We’ll just have pizza. We’ll just make frozen pizza and make the best of it. Well, turns out we made frozen pizza. We picked up like a cheesy salad from this gross little market. 

[00:13:49] Avery Rubenstein: It was delicious. Honestly, it was a fantastic meal. It was very, the last minute we, talked about, we talked about on this trip, the, the Rubenstein fashion, how my parents are actually quite irresponsible and how I was always the kid on field trips where my permission slips weren’t signed and they’d pull me aside when we were about to do the 5 mile hike. And I’d be like, your parents didn’t sign off on this. We have to use the satellite phone to call them.

[00:14:16] Randi Rubenstein: And the truth is, it’s because with Avery, I was still pretending I was like, Oh, I’m the mom. I’m going to be the one that handles doing all the things, the paperwork things, but that is really not my skillset. Um, and by Cory, Scott had taken over. And so Cory, that didn’t happen so much. Cory usually had all the things filled out the minute everything was sent out, you know, it was scanned and sent back because Scott had taken over. But with Avery, that hadn’t happened yet. So she was sharing multiple stories of like being the kid.

[00:14:55] Avery Rubenstein: It happened like a lot of times. It was so embarrassing every time too. I was always that kid. And people, and we would have to wait an extra, like, hour. 

[00:15:03] Randi Rubenstein: So yeah, so that’s the truth. And then, uh, what else happened? Okay. So I realized we didn’t have Christmas, we didn’t have food. So then we’re all there at the Airbnb and it’s just like this little cottage and we’re so happy to, I mean, it, it’s amazing. Were we in Hawaii? We, we didn’t, it didn’t matter if we were in Hawaii. We’re like, Oh my God, it’s so nice outside. It’s dark though. So now we’re going to make frozen pizza and eat like a doctored up gross little salad from the market. And then Cory’s

[00:15:33] Avery Rubenstein: It wasn’t gross.

[00:15:34] Randi Rubenstein: Cory’s like, this is the best meal we’ve had since we’ve been in Hawaii. I’m like, Oh yeah.

[00:15:41] Avery Rubenstein: Backroads makes like these gourmet meals. We ate some of the best sushi we’ve ever had in our lives.

[00:15:45] Randi Rubenstein: He’s like this frozen pizza. So then we watched a movie and like the Airbnb was like two bedrooms and a loft. And it really would have been perfect for like a family with little kids, but Avery was happy. Avery and, and

[00:16:02] Avery Rubenstein: I was overjoyed.

[00:16:03] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. We got the rooms. There was AC, you know, little AC units in the rooms. Meanwhile, so that first night I go up to the loft. That’s where the boys are going to be sleeping who are, you know, almost six feet tall man children with like hairy legs and lots of testosterone. And it’s like these two twin size beds were for sure their feet were going to hang off. There’s no AC up there. I’m like scrambling and like opening windows and they’re like, it’ll be fine. It’ll be fine. I was like, Oh God, they are. I mean, anyway. 

[00:16:36] Avery Rubenstein: They act low maintenance, but

[00:16:38] Randi Rubenstein: But it was fine. They actually, they, seemed fine. 

[00:16:43] Avery Rubenstein: Not to me,

[00:16:44] Randi Rubenstein: What’d they say to you?

[00:16:46] Avery Rubenstein: They were like, You bitch, like, taking the room quarters, like, it’s so fucking entitled. heh heh 

[00:16:53] Randi Rubenstein: I didn’t know that happened.

[00:16:55] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, they were all mad at me the first, the first morning because they had slept horribly and then I was like, Oh, I’ll switch with you. And then I just never brought it up again and they were fine.

[00:17:05] Randi Rubenstein: I think they got used to it. Um, no, but it made me laugh because I was like, I mean, every night we just stayed in and watched movies. Um, I mean, really like we could have been in Hawaii or we could have been in Houston, Texas,

[00:17:22] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, there was just a prettier view outside the window.

[00:17:26] Randi Rubenstein: But we did do some exploring during the day and that was fun.

[00:17:30] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm. We should have, we’ll know for next time to plan ahead with Kauai because you have to book all those reservations for the park.

[00:17:36] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, but we saw a lot of cool stuff. You saw, whales. 

[00:17:39] Avery Rubenstein: We saw, oh my god, I saw my first whale. I mean, I saw a lot of whales jumping all the way out. It was really cool.

[00:17:44] Randi Rubenstein: We went on some fun hikes.

[00:17:47] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm. We had to kill a full day living in the car.

[00:17:50] Randi Rubenstein: Oh, so there’s the other hilarious story. So we spent a day experiencing houselessness. So the other the other scheduling hiccup was I also realized Like once I realized, Oh God, we’re going to get there on Christmas day and there’s not going to be any food. Then I also thought of like, maybe the next day I thought, Oh, I wonder what time checkout is. And so I realized the checkout was on Saturday at 10 a. m. and it’s the busiest week of the year. So the Airbnb landlord, she had it immediately rented to someone else. So we couldn’t do a late checkout. Like we should have rented it for another day because our flight wasn’t until 9 40 that night. So we leave the place at 10 a. m. and we, uh, our flight’s not till 940. We’ve got this, I mean, that minivan, God bless it, but it looked like a shit storm.

[00:18:49] Avery Rubenstein: It looked like someone had been living in it for months. It was disgusting. the floor is completely covered in sand. It was, it was disgusting.

[00:18:58] Randi Rubenstein: We covered some ground that day. We saw that the Grand Canyon of Hawaii, we, we went, we got to see some whales. It was the only day it rained. We got stuck in the rain. We shopped for, um, gifts for, to bring back to people.

[00:19:15] Avery Rubenstein: And we tried to shove all those gifts in our overstuffed suitcases. We bought way too much stuff.

[00:19:22] Randi Rubenstein: No, we also, we did carry ons for nine days or 10 days and it was never again. It was silly to do

[00:19:32] Avery Rubenstein: Well, we thought that we had to for Backroads and then we showed up and people had massive suitcases. I actually liked how it made me feel, made me feel really low maintenance. So,

[00:19:41] Randi Rubenstein: God, but they were stuffed to the gills. It was so stressful. Every time we had to repack and unpack and repack because we were like using air compression bags, it

[00:19:50] Avery Rubenstein: And we stayed in about five different places too. 

[00:19:52] Randi Rubenstein: To change for the plane, we, so we go, we want to have like a last sushi meal. So Alec does some research. He finds a good sushi place, good Yelp review. We show up and it had been like raining off and on all day. And it’s a sushi food truck, not too far from the airport, which turned out to be delicious and a delightful experience. They had a great sound system, but they had these like picnic tables under these like I don’t know what they were. It was like a sushi suka. It was like,

[00:20:23] Avery Rubenstein: Did look like a sucker.

[00:20:25] Randi Rubenstein: Um, and so, which is like, also known as like a little I don’t know, metal tent. It was like a metal tent. So anyway, that we were like taking towels out of the car to like wipe off the tables cause they were wet. So we changed, but we really have to pee and we really have to change for the plane because we’ve been in the same clothes all day. So we go across the, we drive across the highway to go and break in and go to the Costco, um, bathroom, but Costco closes at six. So then we have to go over to the Home Depot and Avery and I are. Literally, like, bathing in the sink and changing our clothes in the Home Depot bathroom.

[00:21:08] Avery Rubenstein: It was, it was like, uh, method acting. We were cosplaying as, as houseless people,

[00:21:15] Randi Rubenstein: I mean, it was good perspective for a day.

[00:21:17] Avery Rubenstein: It was good perspective for a day because it sucked.

[00:21:20] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Yeah. It, it sucked, but it was also kind of hilarious.

[00:21:25] Avery Rubenstein: I was in a bad mood because I had that freak out

[00:21:29] Randi Rubenstein: Hmm.

[00:21:31] Avery Rubenstein: yeah. 

[00:21:31] Randi Rubenstein: about that? Do you want to talk about that. 

[00:21:33] Avery Rubenstein: Am I allowed? Yeah, it 

[00:21:34] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, you talk about It 

[00:21:37] Avery Rubenstein: We were in the car and Alec’s kind of messed with me his whole life. So i’m kind of sensitive my older brother and he I was minding my own business. I think I was trying to sleep in the car and he like like strokes my neck

[00:21:54] Randi Rubenstein: He was in the third row and you were in one of the captain chairs

[00:21:57] Avery Rubenstein: Yes, he strokes my neck in a very light way that felt like a bug on me He’s so annoying when he does he like does like a little face he’s like And I screamed, I don’t know why it’s just that my instinct was like, stop. Like, I yelled it really loud. My dad was like, Jesus, like noise pollution. 

And then we had just gotten to the beach. So we were getting out to whale watch and whatever walk around. And so I feel myself starting to tear up. And I’m 23, and I don’t want to sit there and cry because my older brother messed with me in front of my family. Like, it’s just embarrassing. So I said, could you please open the door? I’m going to go ahead.

And they opened the door and I walked ahead. And I, for some reason, had like a full breakdown. Like, whatever. And then my dad came out and he apologized for his part and whatever. Um, but it put me in such a bad mood. And then my day was saved because I saw my first whale. Or my first, like, big whale.

[00:22:59] Randi Rubenstein: But do you think that that freak out? And then the release you had, like, do you feel like it was like it needed to happen or do you

[00:23:10] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, I wasn’t, I mean, I didn’t hold onto it afterwards. It was, I feel like I would’ve if I had just sat there and like, in the car and like, whatever. But, um, no, I went out, I cried for a second, went and watched some whales, and then I was fine.

[00:23:27] Randi Rubenstein: But do you think that, so do you think it was a release or, or here’s another thought. Do you think it was like muscle memory of what went on when you were younger and. Like feeling the same feelings and the same reaction and the big tears that would happened when you were like with younger you before you had a better relationship with him and know what you know now.

[00:23:54] Avery Rubenstein: I think that the, um, I think that the, like, actual interaction was muscle memory. Like, when I screamed, when I started crying, I think I broke the pattern when I left the car.

[00:24:06] Randi Rubenstein: Hmm. Mm

[00:24:08] Avery Rubenstein: And that’s, and it felt really good. I was like, that was a really good decision. I’m glad. And then, and of course, I was like, oh, they all think I’m dramatic. Like, they think I’m being dramatic. Whatever. I knew Alec was probably talking shit about me in the car. But, um, it felt good to step away and, like, have my moment by myself. Cause I’m also grown. I 

[00:24:28] Randi Rubenstein: wasn’t, he, didn’t say anything. You know, it was interesting. I noticed the pattern I, so I picked up on some nuances of that pattern and I think I told you.

[00:24:39] Avery Rubenstein: With Dad?

[00:24:40] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. So like I and with myself. So that happened and, and then dad said like, Jesus, which is the gaslighting pattern that

[00:24:54] Avery Rubenstein: He said, like, that was a reaction or something like that.

[00:24:57] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Like there was something that felt kind of gaslighting, which he and I have, were guilty of doing to you many times when y’all were kids. So like some little tiny nuanced Alec thing would happen. And wasn’t, it was. You know, it was hard. It was almost like, you know, it was sly. It was hard to see like and he also was kind of covered because if he’s like, I just touched your neck

[00:25:29] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, it was like, it was like a gentle.

[00:25:31] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah

[00:25:33] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, which he does to me all the time now. He’s figured out how to adult mess with me, where he’ll pet my hair, or he’ll cause he knows I don’t I’m just one of those people that don’t like to be touched. Like, not a hugger. Just and he’s very aware. And so he’ll just do little, like, loving things to me.

[00:25:51] Randi Rubenstein: Air quotes loving.

[00:25:52] Avery Rubenstein: Loving? It’s not loving. It’s just trying to make me mad. And

[00:25:56] Randi Rubenstein: And so, and it works and so anyway, so I so I saw the big reaction and then I felt myself go into the pattern of I felt like a deer in the headlights. Like I kind of like all of a sudden froze. And then the thing I noticed was like dad saying the thing which frankly it could have been him, it could have been me either one of us because we were both guilty of that. So I saw him go into that and I noticed a tiny chuckle almost you wouldn’t have it was like almost undetected like a tiny little 

[00:26:32] Avery Rubenstein: From dad? 

[00:26:33] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, or there was some little and I was like

[00:26:36] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, it was a laughter in his voice.

[00:26:38] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, there was a little, and I was thinking, Oh, that mess with Avery behavior somehow, I think got reinforced. I think it was a, like a boys club thing, you know? And it was

[00:26:53] Avery Rubenstein: Cause now Cory does it too.

[00:26:55] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, it was very nuanced, but it was reinforced from dad, which I think is like, you know, he’s in like big brother mode. It’s almost like you might as well be Aunt Carolyn in that moment.

[00:27:05] Avery Rubenstein: Right, it’s funny though, how, because like, Alec cares about Dad’s validation. Cory doesn’t give a shit about Dad’s validation. cares about Alec’s validation. And so it’s like, this trickle down effect.

[00:27:18] Randi Rubenstein: This little trickle down boys club. Yeah. Yeah. Like bros, bros society or something. So I saw it, I saw it happen. I saw myself get frozen. And what I would normally do is I would have normally then got out of the car and gone after you and, sort of like tried to comfort, tried to comfort you,

[00:27:43] Avery Rubenstein: I didn’t want anyone 

[00:27:43] Randi Rubenstein: right. But also knowing that you didn’t want me to comfort you and also kind of like not knowing what to say. Cause I didn’t want to, you know, not wanting to make it worse, especially since I have become, you know, however many years ago when I became aware of the gaslighting pattern. You know, where Alec would do some tiny thing and then you would have a big reaction and then we would say, Avery, you know, like settle down. Don’t. Stop. He’s just trying to be sweet to you or he’s just trying, you know, and so we would do that accidentally. Um, and so since I, I have been come, I’ve become aware of that pattern. Don’t want to do that, but it’s almost like I don’t know what to say because there’s the leftover baggage of us doing that for so long. So when you go through, when these episodes happen, it’s kind of like, there’s really nothing I can say. Um, so I’ll find myself kind of frozen. 

So instead of getting out of the car to go after you and comfort you, after I noticed that little, you know, sort of bros society, tiny nuanced thing. I turned to dad and I said, I think I called him out and I said like, you’re the dad, not the big brother. Go after her. And I think we both said like when he did the jeez, the big reaction, I think we both said like, or maybe I said gaslighting is not helpful right now. So there was some call to it. And so my disrupting the old pattern was me not just jumping out and kind of holding dad a little more accountable and telling dad to go. And

[00:29:26] Avery Rubenstein: And he was ashamed of it. Like when he, I think he had been, he’d been trailing me for a little bit while I walked to the beach. He was just walking like 10 feet behind me. 

[00:29:36] Randi Rubenstein: This is all happening on the houseless day, you. 

[00:29:39] Avery Rubenstein: all in a houseless day. So we’re all dirty too. And I get to the beach and I’m watching this whale. And he comes up to me and I was like, do you see there’s a whale trying to be like, it’s fine. I’m fine now. And he was like, I’m really sorry that I added to that. I was like, it’s okay. And I think probably when I was a kid, that would have been really helpful. And even like, if you were the one to come after me, not going and being like, it’s okay, just like kind of being in my space. Would have been helpful.

Now, I mean, I’ve gone to years and years of therapy and I know how to deal with my stuff, you know, I know how to calm myself 

[00:30:19] Randi Rubenstein: Wait, so what would have been helpful? What would my role have been when 

[00:30:25] Avery Rubenstein: Just kind of like, because it’s a big thing, like, even during like panic attacks and, you know, whenever people have heightened reactions to things, they just need to calm down and sometimes it takes someone else to regulate them. And so, I think, for me, I sometimes will get really, you know, frantic and just feel like a lot at once. Just having someone exist in the same space as me is what I’ve noticed from just experience with my friends and stuff. Someone existing in the same space as me and just being a quiet ally is helpful. And not feeling rushed to feel better.

[00:31:04] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, and I think for me, I wouldn’t, yeah, like, I would’ve had to have been taught that. Like is more, no words, just be with 

[00:31:16] Avery Rubenstein: And even the words can be like, take your time. Cause a lot of times I would notice like, and I still feel this way when I’m upset about something. I want to immediately get over it because I feel like everyone’s waiting for me to get over it. Like, even when I felt those tears coming on, I was like, stop. Just, just don’t cry. Just 

[00:31:32] Randi Rubenstein: Mm hmm. 

[00:31:35] Avery Rubenstein: I think, like, when I’ve had panic attacks, that one panic attack that Riley helped me with, the most helpful thing she said to me was like, You’re safe. You’re fine. Take your time.

[00:31:45] Randi Rubenstein: Mm hmm.

[00:31:47] Avery Rubenstein: I was like, Oh, I don’t need to go anywhere. No one’s 

[00:31:50] Randi Rubenstein: That’s, that’s the Peter Levine story of when the guy falls, and like, goes and sits with him, and you know, and it’s like, I’m right here,

[00:32:01] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm. 

[00:32:02] Randi Rubenstein: We’re going to stay sitting here. There’s no rush. Right? Like, 

[00:32:06] Avery Rubenstein: Exactly. 

[00:32:07] Randi Rubenstein: yeah, I think that’s

[00:32:08] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah. The lack of rush to move through emotion. I feel like that’s a lot of things why people, why things are unresolved for people and why people hold on to things is because they’re rushed through their reactions and they don’t get to actually process them.

[00:32:21] Randi Rubenstein: Mm hmm. Yeah. I think, um, that’s helpful. 

Okay. The other topic that I wanted, because I, of course, I had to bring it up today on one of the threads with my moms. Lindsey said, we need Avery to make us, uh, we need, we need for the app, some content on this term. Because I was talking about, I was telling the story about, um, our conversation with you and, and, and the theme of weaponized incompetence and me and dad the other night about, Oh, about the food processor, the food processor story where we were trying to determine whether it was weaponized incompetence or not, turns out it was, right. It was, it was. 

Um, which was Scott wanted to wake me up from a nap because he was going to make this. He’s just started cooking. So it’s a whole big deal. And there’s a lot of hiccups in terms of our dynamic and, um, There’s a lot of, what Avery has taught us, there’s a lot of weaponized incompetence, which means, can you just easily define it?

[00:33:36] Avery Rubenstein: it’s pretending that you don’t know how to complete an easily learned task so that someone else will do it for you.

[00:33:43] Randi Rubenstein: Hmm.

[00:33:44] Avery Rubenstein: Like, we have YouTube. You can learn anything. I could build a table right now if I wanted to. 

[00:33:49] Randi Rubenstein: And do you think it’s a more of, like, is it a term that’s used more with men?

[00:33:54] Avery Rubenstein: It’s used more with men, although Baxter tells me I do it all the time.

[00:33:57] Randi Rubenstein: Really?

[00:33:58] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm.

[00:33:59] Randi Rubenstein: About what?

[00:34:01] Avery Rubenstein: Um, I don’t know. A lot of times cooking. Which I’ve actually, I’ve, I’ve received it, and I don’t ask him things anymore. I just look up a video. Like if I, I, like I didn’t know how to dice an onion. And I just looked up a video instead of asking him, but there are, I can’t think of a specific example, but there are a couple of times where he’s like, that’s weaponized incompetence because I say to him.

[00:34:24] Randi Rubenstein: Hmm. What do you say it to him about?

[00:34:28] Avery Rubenstein: Um, little things like, he doesn’t know how to get a stain out of his clothes, or, like, a lot of cleaning and things like that. He’s like, acts like he doesn’t know how to do it. And I’m like, it’s pretty figureoutable. directions are on the box, you know?

[00:34:45] Randi Rubenstein: But you do it so well.

[00:34:47] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah. He’s like, but you, but you know how to do it. He was missing a button on a shirt for a long time, like one of his favorite shirts that we thrifted together, and he has a lot of chest hair. And I was like, you look gross, like, you need to put a button on that, and he’s like, I don’t know how, and I said, I have a sewing kit on my desk, do you want to try?

And he was like, well, I just don’t know how to sew, like, I feel like you’d do it better than me. and I was like, well, maybe I could do it better, but it’s a button. Like, it doesn’t have to look pretty. You can just do it. And he was like, okay. 

And so once I saw him watching a video on how to do it, then I was like, okay, hand me your shirt, hand me the button. I’ll do it. I was like, it was like a little kid moment. I was like, once he showed me he was capable, then I did it for him. But yeah, we, we’re pretty good about not using weaponizing confidence because we’ll call each other out and we’re both very prideful and we don’t want to get called out on it.

[00:35:43] Randi Rubenstein: And what happens is like, I can speak for myself. Like if, if he’s like, Oh, I got this stain, I’m going to have to throw this shirt away. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, you’re not. And he’s like, well, I don’t know how to do that. I’m like, I’ll just do it for you. And then if I get the stain out, I get a lot of positive reinforcement, which is like, Oh my gosh, how did you know how to do that? You always do, you know? And so then it’s almost like it’s a little stroke of your ego.

[00:36:16] Avery Rubenstein: Oh, well, it feels good to be needed. Same way that you would make us all sandwiches every second, you know?

[00:36:20] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Right. you know, so I think it goes on both sides, but, um, so back to the, the debate. Whether it was weaponized incompetence or not about dad and the food process. So, so there’s a lot of hiccups in us learning how to cook together because we are polar opposites in pretty much almost everything that we do. And so he’s very by the book and he followed, you know, a recipe has to be exact.

And if he, if we don’t have the exact, like last night we were making this recipe and it called for a yellow onion, but all we had was a red onion and he’s like, guess I’m gonna have to go back to the store. And I’m like, no, we can use a red onion. He’s like, no, we can’t. And I’m like, yes, we can. He’s like, it calls for a yellow onion. That’s entirely wrong. 

And frankly, last night I just didn’t want to deal with him because I knew it wasn’t an exact recipe. It was like, you know, we watched a video from like delish. com because you pay for a subscription to get the recipe. They were blurring the recipe and so I couldn’t see the recipe. So I watched a video. So I knew it wasn’t exact measurements of anything. But I’ve been making dinner for like, you know, 25 years. So I do know a thing. 

But the problem is, is that when we make a recipe, whether it’s exact or it’s not exact, I’m just like doing it and he could just handle a different task, but instead what he does is his over functioner part comes on, comes in, and then he starts asking me to justify the parts that I’m taking care of.

[00:37:56] Avery Rubenstein: Right. It’s like Baxter.

[00:37:59] Randi Rubenstein: Right. And so he’s like, it, the recipe says that the shallots are supposed to be thin. We got into such a fight about the thinness of the shallots. I can’t even tell you. And he’s like, it I was like, they’re thin enough. And I get that voice. Like I’m just done. Like I’m like, no. Like after 25 years of me just doing everything and now you’re taking part, but like now I have to justify the thinness of my shallots. They’re fine. 

And he’s like, well, it says they’re supposed to be thin. And I’m like, they are. They’re thin. They’re fine. He’s like, well, do you want me just to go through and make them a little thinner? And I’m like, no, I don’t. I want you to read the recipe and find a task that hasn’t been done yet and handle that. 

And I know, I think I said, you know what would be helpful? Rather than being an over functioner. So then I went into name calling rather than doing your over functioning thing and correcting what I have already completed, it would be helpful if you would just find a task that hasn’t been done yet and complete that. And then he was just not in the mood and he just like left the kitchen.

[00:39:13] Avery Rubenstein: He’s so different from me when I perform a task that’s not my area of expertise.

[00:39:18] Randi Rubenstein: Why?

[00:39:20] Avery Rubenstein: Like, when I cook with Baxter, I’m so self conscious. Like, convinced I’m doing everything wrong, asking for validation on every step.

[00:39:29] Randi Rubenstein: Well, it might be male female thing like, you know, it’s like

[00:39:33] Avery Rubenstein: it could be. But he’s also such a good cook. And I’m such a not good cook. Although, we will have fights like that where it’ll be like, I’ll chop up garlic and I’ll do an extra clove or something, and he’s like, oh, it called for three cloves instead of four and I’ll be like, so you just called me dumb. And then he’ll drop the argument and I’m like It’s garlic like it’s more is better.

[00:39:56] Randi Rubenstein: And how do you know how big those cloves are? It’s kind of an eyeball 

[00:39:59] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, exactly I used my best judgment or that’s how many I grabbed. 

[00:40:03] Randi Rubenstein: Well, so okay. So back to the, so there’s been several instances this week. So the food processor was, he tried to wake me up for, from a nap on Sunday because he wanted to make, do make this thing that we had talked about that he wanted to make these, these like seed cracker things. He really wanted the seed cracker things made. And I said, and normally I would have said like, okay, we can make that, which would have been mostly me making it. But instead I was like, Oh, the ingredient, the recipe looks like it’s a chemistry experiment. Perfect for your wiring. You, you can handle this. You’ll do this. 

[00:40:41] Avery Rubenstein: It was like baking.

[00:40:42] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, I was like, this is perfect. Like I’ll for sure, fuck this up. So you should do this anyway. So we’d already established that. So then, so he gets all of his little bowls, like it’s a cooking show, everything measured out before he, we go and lay down, this is on a Sunday.

[00:40:57] Avery Rubenstein: I do that too.

[00:40:59] Randi Rubenstein: I really, I was like, Oh my gosh, I, 

[00:41:02] Avery Rubenstein: If I were a better cook, I wouldn’t do it, but it’s because I’m scared of

[00:41:05] Randi Rubenstein: I don’t know. I mean, it was pretty impressive, but it’s just not the way I roll. I’m not that organized. Um, so then he tried, I hear him try, he’s like, I hear him like, not like shaking me to wake me up, but he was like, I really go like muttering under, but want to go make that. So I just like squeeze my eyes shut and pretend that I’m still sleeping and completely ignore him, but then I come out later. And I waited a good long while like that I like then I was like kind of awake. But then I like did something watch something listen to something and just hung out in the bedroom for a while longer. And so when I came out those crackers were already in the oven and I’m like, oh looks like you figured it out Looks like you figured out how to make it.

He’s like Well, I had to watch several videos about the food processor. I don’t even, I didn’t even know where the food processor was. I don’t even know what a food processor looks like. And I said, well, that’s, that’s weaponized incompetence right there, was you waking me up from the nap or trying to, because you didn’t know what a food processor was? He goes, well, I didn’t. I was like, well, we got that food processor for our wedding. So we’ve had it for 28 years and it’s 

[00:42:21] Avery Rubenstein: It’s also a Google image search.

[00:42:24] Randi Rubenstein: but it’s also been on our counter for 28 years. And, and so I was like, so that’s, that’s on you. Plus. Plus, you can look up, how do you use a food processor? He goes, well, I did, but ours is so old, I couldn’t even find a model that looked exactly like ours. So then I really had to do a deep dive to find one that was that old.

[00:42:50] Avery Rubenstein: just look up the model?

[00:42:51] Randi Rubenstein: I don’t know what he did because I, I said, I said, I know none of this is an argument. I’m telling you, this is what Avery refers to as weaponized incompetence, that you even think this is an argument because what’s the result?

He goes that I had to spend a lot of time trying to figure something out that you knew. And if you would have just gotten up, you could have come and shown me. And I said, well, looks like the crackers are baking. So you did figure it out. And he goes, but that’s not weaponized incompetence. If it’s something that you just actually don’t know, I was like, wait, wait. So then we called you to give 

[00:43:28] Avery Rubenstein: Yes it is. 

[00:43:28] Randi Rubenstein: Right. To give us a quick, because he was still arguing that that wasn’t weaponized incompetence because he actually didn’t know something. And I actually had the knowledge. So why wouldn’t I just share the knowledge versus him having to be resourceful and figure it out?

[00:43:47] Avery Rubenstein: Baxter and I had a conversation about when I, the first time I like made him a big meal, I made him this big soup. It was an Instagram recipe, so it was pretty like just a video with like a list of like, the ingredients but not like the amount.

And I didn’t even know what bok choy was, but I just, I figured it out. I looked up how to cut it, looked up if I wanted baby or, yeah, it’s it’s my new favorite veggie, but we were talking about that instance because he came home to this beautiful dish, you know, he’s usually makes dinner every night and he said, I was like telling him about dad and the food processor. And he was like, yeah, what you did was weaponized competence. Cause it was powerful. I was like, yeah, I 

[00:44:32] Randi Rubenstein: Weaponized competence. 

[00:44:34] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm. Yeah, he was like, he was like the opposite of weaponized incompetence. He didn’t ask me a single question. You just figured it out.

[00:44:41] Randi Rubenstein: But let’s talk about like, like, tell me what, what all the people your age, all the strong, smart women. I have that on my vision board. It’s my new fav, I keep finding myself repeating it. It’s strong women. May we know them. May we be them. May we raise them.

[00:45:00] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm.

[00:45:01] Randi Rubenstein: that good? 

[00:45:02] Avery Rubenstein: Such a mama warrior.

[00:45:04] Randi Rubenstein: Mm hmm. So like all the strong women of your generation who are coming up with terms like weaponized incompetence, what are they saying in terms of like educating yourselves and each other and like, like how we’re now educating dad about it? Like what do they say? Like the point of all of it is.

[00:45:23] Avery Rubenstein: A big thing that people have been talking about now, especially with, um, like, where women are right now in our society is stop doing free labor. There’s this whole, there’s, it’s been circulating again, but this fuck ass NFL guy gave this graduation speech at a college and basically said in the graduation speech with college graduates, like these girls, your place is in the home. And the most successful thing you’ll ever do in your life is have children. And everyone’s like, what the hell? 

And all of a sudden, it’s like this big conversation of, now we have to work a job because blah, blah, blah, feminism and whatever, and they want us to do all the labor at home and so we’re doing all this free labor and men don’t want part of that.

And so the weaponized incompetence comes in because they’re like, stop doing everything for them. Let them fucking figure it out. just act like you don’t know how to do it. You don’t need their validation for being good at things. You don’t need their praise. Like, cause I will say, like, even when I sewed that button on for Baxter and he was like, You’re so good at that. You’re so talented. It felt really good to hear him say that. I was like, yeah, I rock. 

And then I was thinking about it, I was like, I sewed a button onto a shirt. Like, I learned how to do that in pre K. Literally, when I sewed maps in Miss Josie’s class, I don’t know, it’s just become a whole conversation of we need to stop doing everything for them because nothing we will ever do will earn respect of men that don’t respect us already. Right.

[00:47:02] Randi Rubenstein: It’s like, if I think about dad and me cooking together and trying to figure this out, he feels so much pride as a participant, like making the meal. Like he has, like, I can tell he’s into it, you know, he’s versus just sitting there coming home. You know, I was feeling resentful because now it’s like, there’s no kids at home. So he was coming home and we both, we both work. I mean, I think his job is a little taxing than mine, but whatever. And he comes home and I’m the one who’s like, by four o’clock I was, it was like, I still had kids at home thinking about what are we going to have for dinner and then getting it started.

And then he comes home and he’s like relaxing and watching something on his iPad and the kitchen and I’m making the dinner for both of us and I was getting pissed about it. And um, he’s, you know, he’s like, I’m all in. So now we’re trying to figure out how to do it together. And I’m a little bit of an asshole because I’m like, don’t ask me, don’t make me justify. I’ve been making dinner for a long time, you know? So I’m also trying to, you know, be nicer, which can be hard. 

[00:48:13] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah. I think there’s a lot of themes that come into play, including like, changing of habits is acceptable even after almost 30 years. Right. You know, like, just because someone’s made dinner for the last 28 years doesn’t mean that’s going to continue for the next 30. Mm

[00:48:28] Randi Rubenstein: And he’s into it. I mean, we have been for the whole last year, we’ve been, you know, shopping for food, sort of planning our meals together, doing all that. You know, boring domestic stuff. Um, and he’s into it. He loves going to the grocery store with me and so we’ve got, we have our little system down. 

But I think, every night him eating whatever it is that I cooked, and being super appreciative and loving it, you know, like, I, I always felt like he was very appreciative, but I also think that, like, it sort of validated me. Like I’m feeling super productive or I’m like, well, at least I’m doing this thing. And so there was this like BS validation I got from it. 

But then also, it’s tiring to do all of it on you. And it’s a little lonely and it’s a little isolating and it it’s not collaborative. It doesn’t make me feel more connected necessarily. And so, the result of all of it was, I was left feeling more and more and more resentful. You know, when I was cooking for you guys, I never felt resentful about that because part of what I wanted to do for what I wanted to do. If I had felt resentful, I would have changed it. 

But I didn’t feel resentful when y’all were growing up. Cause it’s like, you know, you were going to school. You were, you know, dealing with all that and activities and homework and all the things and there’s only so much time in a day, you know, and so I don’t know, I just kind of like, was like, I want to feed them. And, um, but as y’all got older and especially now, like, even like I noticed it over break where I think I said something like and you were very cognizant of it, too like I don’t want to get stuck in the kitchen for hours. Like if I’m making something for myself and you come in I’m like, oh I was making this thing Do you

[00:50:28] Avery Rubenstein: Think you said that over Thanksgiving.

[00:50:30] Randi Rubenstein: I did?

[00:50:31] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm. It was a thanks that’s why I was so careful about it on over winter breaks every time. you’d offer to make a sandwich. But it would be like, I’d come into the kitchen, you’d offer to make me a sandwich, and then Alec would come into the kitchen, and then Cory would come into the kitchen, and you’d keep offering and offering, And we’d all take you up on it and so then you’re going back and it would end up taking you up an hour and a half.

But I think eventually you were like, I want to provide and it feels good to give people things. But it also makes you resentful, which I’ve noticed happens to me a lot. Cause I clean, that’s my job is I clean the whole house. And it’ll be like, I’m on my knees scrubbing the bathtub or whatever, and I’m like, God, I’m so fucking pissed right now. Why is this always my job?

And so then I’ll, instead of, because I’ll sit with it for a long time, and I’ll be like, start getting pissed at Baxter. I’ll be like, ugh, I do everything. And I, and then, and I’ll, and I’ll also be like, well, I can’t complain because he makes me dinner. Can’t complain because he makes me dinner. Same with Dad, probably, for years. I can’t complain because he’s the one working all of the day. And 

[00:51:44] Randi Rubenstein: I’ve working for a long time too, but it’s that he pays for the majority of our lifestyle.

[00:51:49] Avery Rubenstein: Right. And eventually I was like, well, it’s not like I leave Baxter to cook every night. I’m sous chefing every night. I’m sitting there chopping everything that he needs, stirring what he needs. Like he’s not alone in the kitchen. And so finally I was like, Hey, you make the bed today. You clean the bathtub. Like, and he would push back. He’s like, well, I don’t know what spray to use. 

[00:52:13] Randi Rubenstein: Mmm weaponized incompetence. 

[00:52:15] Avery Rubenstein: I don’t tuck in the blankets the way that you do. He’s like, I don’t know how the blankets go on the bed. He’s like, you like so many blankets. It’s fine. No one’s coming in to stage our home. Figure it out. You use bleach in the bathtub. Good luck.

[00:52:31] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. And if you go to the thing of like me justifying in my mind, like, well, you know, he’s the one who is, you know, his job pays for X, Y, and Z. And then also remembering, what about all this unpaid labor that I’ve done for a quarter of a century. You know, if you put a price tag on how much it would cost for, to take care of your kids and to have somebody do all the things that you do to run a home,

[00:53:03] Avery Rubenstein: He paid for the lifestyle, but you are the lifestyle.

[00:53:05] Randi Rubenstein: Right. Like I, there’s also, you know, a price on that. So I think it’s like where we start to realize our value and we start to hold other people accountable. And I think this is how you end male privilege is weaponized and competence. We have to put a stop and call bullshit on weaponized and competence. And that’s how we untrain male privilege.

[00:53:31] Avery Rubenstein: Right. Yeah. I think it goes hand in hand with ego. And like a little bit of, like entitlement. Like, look at what I provide. You do that. You know what the food processor does. You do that.

[00:53:45] Randi Rubenstein: Mm hmm.

[00:53:47] Avery Rubenstein: I’m willing to do the task, you do the little 

[00:53:49] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Like I like I’m too self important to like know about these things

[00:53:54] Avery Rubenstein: Mm hmm. Exactly. It’s like, just learn. Then two people know. 

[00:53:58] Randi Rubenstein: I mean, I don’t really, I mean, honestly, dad’s kind of the opposite of that in most things. Like he loves knowing all about all the details of all the things he’s, you know, he, he does many tasks. I mean, the truth is he does, I think he does more tasks around here than I do in many ways, but I know a lot I know a lot of women listening to this podcast, it’s a very different situation. And so it’s like, well, where do you even start to re educate your partner?

[00:54:33] Avery Rubenstein: It probably takes so long if you’re married to him.

[00:54:36] Randi Rubenstein: I

[00:54:36] Avery Rubenstein: I mean, you can do it, a hundred percent. It just takes one day at a time, but I’ve had, obviously, they weren’t married. I’ve had a lot of friends come to me, because I’m kind of known as the, uh, misandrist of my friend group a little bit, and

[00:54:48] Randi Rubenstein: Explain what a misandrist is.

[00:54:52] Avery Rubenstein: It’s like misogyny, but like, against men. And, uh, they’ll come and they’ll be like, oh, blah, blah, blah, this, this, and this. And they’ll give me all these examples of gaslighting and weaponized incompetence. I’m like, get out of there. No, not worth even putting in the effort. Leave him. Obviously, I don’t have children with him and, you know, a life, it’s different. You can still train a man, but if you’re seeing signs of that 

[00:55:22] Randi Rubenstein: Most of em need training. 

[00:55:24] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, most of them, I mean, I trained Bax, he also helped me, but, in a lot of ways, I trained him.

[00:55:31] Randi Rubenstein: Although Baxter, Baxter came pretty,

[00:55:34] Avery Rubenstein: Baxter came pretty lovely and I taught him a lot about empathy.

[00:55:38] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. You know, look, I will say. It’s very helpful when you have a strong daughter, cause then you can like do the double steamrolling. I don’t know what man, I mean, would be able to stand up to the two of us together. I mean, it’s just.

[00:55:59] Avery Rubenstein: Sometimes I feel bad. He’s like a puppy. It’s like kicking a puppy.

[00:56:03] Randi Rubenstein: I know. At this point, and he’s so good at this point, too.

[00:56:08] Avery Rubenstein: He’s pretty good.

[00:56:08] Randi Rubenstein: He’s pretty good. Um, okay, I think we’ve had a good recap, so, alright, everyone, hope that was just delightful being a fly on the wall of our riveting conversations, um, and, uh, until next week, or the week after, bye!

[00:56:29] Avery Rubenstein: Bye.

[00:56:30] Randi Rubenstein: Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.

And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys. 

So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, super appreciative.