321: Our Review of the Netflix Show Adolescence: Teens, Screens, and Toxic Masculinity

[00:00:00] Randi Rubenstein: My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them.
Hello. Hello, hello. Welcome to this week. This week I have Avery here with me again.
[00:00:18] Avery Rubenstein: Hello.
[00:00:19] Randi Rubenstein: Hello. Um, and we’re gonna talk about the show Adolescence. Everyone’s talking about this show, uh, Adolescence. So if you haven’t heard about it, good for you. It means you’re not as plugged in as the rest of us are. Maybe you’re like actually like living your life and kicking it old school and not being on your freaking device every five seconds like the rest of us are.
[00:00:46] Avery Rubenstein: Not us.
[00:00:48] Randi Rubenstein: so good on you. Um, but for the rest of us, you’ve probably heard about Adolescence or you’ve watched it. And that’s what we’re gonna be talking about today.
So there will be spoilers. So if you haven’t watched the show, I will say watch it. I was actually scared to watch it And a couple of people said like, you really should, and with the work that you do, you really need to watch this show. Which of course just activated the rebel tendency in me and made me not wanna watch it.
So I really didn’t wanna watch it and. I watched about half of the first episode on a plane, and then it, it like had stopped record downloading or something, so all I could watch was about half of it, and I actually was happy. I was like, oh. I tried to watch it oh damn, um, shucks. And then I was like, well, I really should.
And the only reason I, well, not the only reason, but one of the main reasons I continued to watch was because dad had had watched two episodes and he was like, I think you’re gonna wanna watch this. So he was waiting on me. So he was like, what is taking so long? I’m dying to continue this show. I mean,
[00:02:05] Avery Rubenstein: I am shocked that you didn’t finish it. That first episode had me.
[00:02:09] Randi Rubenstein: I think I was in a fragile state and I, it was like, you
[00:02:14] Avery Rubenstein: It’s heavy.
[00:02:15] Randi Rubenstein: we’re not, we’re not even gonna talk about what, where I, I had just spent a week and it, I was in a fragile state, so I, I think I just wanted to watch the Gilmore Girls, which I have also been watching and, you know, get back into my nurturing cozy, like I needed to be nurtured.
[00:02:33] Avery Rubenstein: It’s such a comfort show.
[00:02:35] Randi Rubenstein: Right, so I just wasn’t, I wasn’t in the mood. Um, so I reluctantly continued watching, watched the rest of that first episode, and then once I watched the second epi episode, um, I was like, oh, now I get it. And I was hooked. Um, so for everyone out there who hasn’t watched or is thinking maybe you don’t wanna watch, I me too. I was the same. Um. You wanna pause this right now and come back to this episode after you’ve watched Adolescence.
[00:03:06] Avery Rubenstein: Also if it helps, this is what got me to watch it. ’cause I was also resistant when you said it was four episodes. I was like, oh, that’s an afternoon.
[00:03:16] Randi Rubenstein: So it’s, yeah. So it’s, so it’s like a short binge. Um, yeah, it’s four episodes and it’s. It’s an important show. Um, I mean, people are praising it. Like they’re praising. I mean, everybody is all of a sudden thinking, they’re like a cinematographer and they have all this knowledge about how shows shot.
[00:03:40] Avery Rubenstein: It’s filmed in such a cool way. ’cause every episode is, uh, a single shot. Like they don’t cut, there’s no cuts in it. They film it like, like it’s, I mean like I guess documentaries aren’t exactly filmed like that, but it feels like it’s all happening in real time, which is pretty adds to the dramatics.
[00:03:57] Randi Rubenstein: I didn’t know what that meant. And dad kept saying, you know, it’s all, it’s all filmed in one shot. And he kept saying it and I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s cool. And I, but I didn’t really know what that meant. I just wanted him to stop talking. And then he said it, I don’t know, for the 25th time, and I said, did you read an article and now all of a sudden you’re a cinematographer and you have all this knowledge? He was like, no, I didn’t even read an article, which I call bullshit on
[00:04:23] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, that’s a lie.
[00:04:25] Randi Rubenstein: That’s a lie. There’s been a ton of articles out about the way this, but what I understand, the, what makes it so cool is that, you know, since there, there’s no cuts, which means that there’s a lot of improvising. So the actors, it’s kind of like, I, I, I mean, I would imagine it’s a little bit like Curb Your Enthusiasm in the sense that there’s a lot of, you know, it’s like, here’s the basic script. And I think this had a script. I mean, there’s definitely lines, but I think there’s a lot of improvising.
And the article that I read that made me finally understand it is that part of what you feel as the viewer is that not only is it an intense topic, so you feel the intensity of the actors because it’s one take. So whatever happens in this take, like that’s gonna be the episode. So yeah, so the intensity that you feel like the act, everybody’s saying, like the acting is incredible. And I think a part, a big part of it is that we feel that intensity of like, like it’s like camera time go and there
[00:05:31] Avery Rubenstein: The best actor in the show was the kid. The way that he filled space.
[00:05:36] Randi Rubenstein: Did you read that this was his first acting role?
[00:05:39] Avery Rubenstein: It was? Oh my God. He was incr, I mean like I was scared of him, but like
[00:05:47] Randi Rubenstein: Okay, let’s, let’s, let’s set it up. Let’s set it up. So, um, so I finished it like a week or two ago and Avery just finished it, um, this morning. So. Set it up for everyone. Again, if you haven’t watched it, please pause this because we’re gonna have all kinds of spoilers here and we’re really gonna break it down and talk about what we think the themes are, why we think it’s so important to watch this.
Maybe even to consider watching it if you have teenagers, um, and kids that are on their own devices. Um, like, like if you’re really honest, on their own devices without you screening everything they’re seeing. Um,
[00:06:30] Avery Rubenstein: Which, how could you.
[00:06:32] Randi Rubenstein: I know, I, I mean, I know, but some parents actually think that they know what, you know, everything their kids are doing online and maybe they do. I shouldn’t say. It was, it’s a lot to keep up with, but, um, yeah. So, okay, so now you give a synopsis of what the show’s about.
[00:06:49] Avery Rubenstein: Okay, so the show starts. It’s this family, seemingly average family in England. I don’t know where in England. Um. And it’s this, like these two parents, their older daughter, younger son, and SWAT teams or whatever it is in England, like raid their home.
[00:07:07] Randi Rubenstein: And son is 13 and like a prepubescent, very innocent looking 13.
[00:07:13] Avery Rubenstein: Adorable. Adorable and tiny. And um, they take him, arrest him, basically you’re saying like, Hey,
[00:07:23] Randi Rubenstein: Out of his, like, out of his bed.
[00:07:25] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah. Like he’s, he wet, like he wet himself. He was so scared. It was really, I mean, it was like you’re feeling and you’re like, and you don’t know what’s happened at this point, so you’re so sad for him. Um, and they take him into the detention center and they’re basically like this girl, like they were like she was murdered. Um, this thir or whatever, 13-year-old girl, I think.
[00:07:48] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. In his grade. Yeah.
[00:07:50] Avery Rubenstein: And he was like, I didn’t do it. I didn’t do it like so convincing that he did not do it, like he believed that he did not do it. His dad believed him and they basically pull him in for questioning. That scene was really intense. It was long, no cuts, remember. Um, they’re asking him questions, asking him questions, and eventually they’re like, we have a tape. And they pull up the tape and it’s him stabbing this girl, like in a parking lot, like multiple times, killing her dead.
Um. Can you see the dad go through grief and basically it’s this whole story of it follows a bunch of different perspectives, but how did he get like this and how he’s convinced himself like that it wasn’t wrong or I don’t know. He just like keeps saying, I didn’t do it. I didn’t do it until the last episode, where he is like, I’m gonna plead guilty.
[00:08:43] Randi Rubenstein: But you know, I thought the interesting thing was in the way it was shot or maybe, I don’t know. It’s like when they had the video of him, ’cause like, it happens, it’s just like these kids that just like hang out around town, you know, they must live in a somewhat of a small town and, and so they’re just like, you know, middle school kids and they’re hanging out around town and so it’s like in, in front of like, you know, a Walmart or something.
[00:09:13] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, it wasn’t like he like did it in the woods.
[00:09:16] Randi Rubenstein: Right. So it was like in, it was like in front and, and I mean there’s security cameras and so they have the whole incident on the security camera. Um, and a lot of the show, especially early on, I’m like, I’m feeling for the kid, but I am in, like, I feel like I’m the parents. I don’t wanna believe it’s true. I’m, I’m, I’m rooting for this not to be true, for this to be a mistake. And you haven’t seen the video yet, but I’m, I’m just thinking about this innocent child and how scared he seems like he seems innocent and I’m thinking this fragile child. Prepubescent, um, ripped out of his bed.
Like this is a trauma. I’m worried about him being traumatized by even the way the SWAT team came in and, and traumatized this family and pulled him out of the bed and now he’s being yanked away from his parents and being driven down to, you know, wherever the questioning site, the jail, the prison, whatever it was, and um, or the detention center and, I’m just thinking, oh my God, this little kid is gonna be so traumatized by this whole experience. And then the parents and the sister, I’m thinking, this poor family, they’re all gonna be so traumatized about this whole experience. This is
[00:10:39] Avery Rubenstein: That doesn’t go away.
[00:10:41] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, like, and, and I’m feeling the pain and the anguish of these parents and specifically the dad.
[00:10:51] Avery Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:51] Randi Rubenstein: You know, and he keeps, and it’s very clear that the little boy feels connected to his dad and, and his dad’s the one that’s kind of reassuring him. And, um, and, and the officers, all the officers were really nice to the kid. And there’s this one cop who, that’s riding with him and he’s basically letting him know, like, don’t say anything, any, you know, basically like trying to protect the kid. Like, don’t say anything, wait, this is what’s gonna happen next. You wanna wait. Um, like you wanna be able to have a lawyer. You are going to, you wanna wait until you’re with your dad. Like
[00:11:30] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, they were treating him like he was innocent almost.
[00:11:33] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Like they were really treating him in a much more civilized way than I would imagine things go down in America.
[00:11:41] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah.
[00:11:42] Randi Rubenstein: Um, and yeah, I was also thinking that like, it was interesting, even just like in the way they spoke, like all this intense, all this intensity is going on and like, you know, your kid has been taken from you and like the dad who you can tell is an intense guy. Um, he’s calling everyone love.
[00:12:04] Avery Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:04] Randi Rubenstein: Did you notice that?
[00:12:05] Avery Rubenstein: Well, I was watching it with, with Baxter, my boyfriend. For people that don’t know and he was saying. An English accent puts me at ease. He’s like, it’s so calming the way that they’re talking to everyone. Because we were noticing, he was like, love and bud, and you know, all these like terms of affection. I was like, oh my God, I would be losing my mind.
[00:12:26] Randi Rubenstein: Like, we’d be like, gimme my kid back. What are you doing? This is unjust. I’m gonna sue you. You know, whatever. And, and he was like talking to the female officer, you know, or whoever. He was like, okay, love. I. Um, like that was, and I was like, it’s, they’re, they’re so, you know, they’re, they’re, it’s so civilized. Even though you could tell he was going through so much anguish. There’s like a level of civility that I thought was interesting. Um, anyway, we digress.
So, uh, so then like, when they, you know, have the kid in questioning, he gets to have, he gets to like, choose basically like a guardian, uh, you know, a guardian that, I don’t know, what did they call it?
[00:13:10] Avery Rubenstein: It’s a like a represented adult, basically. Something like that.
[00:13:15] Randi Rubenstein: Since he’s a minor, he gets to have an adult of his choosing and he chooses his dad. So his dad’s in there with him when he’s getting questioned and that’s when they show him. The tape that they have the footage and you just see the dad like, you know, and he had just said to the kid when it was just the two of them, like, tell me the truth. Did, tell me the truth. And the kid’s like, I promise I didn’t do it, dad. I promise. I promise. And then, you know, a few minutes later, here’s the footage of the kid stabbing his classmate.
[00:13:50] Avery Rubenstein: The kid seems, he seems so normal and so innocent. That’s the most disturbing part to me, is like, I think he was normal.
[00:14:00] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah.
[00:14:01] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, it can happen to anyone.
[00:14:04] Randi Rubenstein: And that’s kind of the message is it could ha if it could happen to this kid and this family. Um, this is a real, we’re in a crisis situation, like it could happen to anyone. And so let’s all pay attention and let’s all solve this mystery and figure out how it happened, like what led him to do this. And I mean, even though they had the footage, I secretly was still hoping that somehow it wasn’t him. Like I was still feeling delusional.
[00:14:40] Avery Rubenstein: I was less feeling delusional, more, this is so wrong and I would never hope this in real life, but I was hoping it, ’cause it was a TV show. I was hoping that the dad had done something terrible to him.
[00:14:52] Randi Rubenstein: Mm.
[00:14:52] Avery Rubenstein: Because I wanted there to be a more solid reason than the kid had access to internet. Because that’s so scary to me. I’d be like, okay, maybe if you’re sexually assaulted as a child, you’re susceptible.
[00:15:04] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:15:05] Avery Rubenstein: Like the fact that like maybe the dad just had like a little bit of a temper and would raise his voice,
[00:15:13] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:13] Avery Rubenstein: like, and it, and honestly like throughout the show, when the dad would raise his voice, and obviously he, he did lose it in the last episode, but he would raise his voice, but it was never like, saying to the family like, you guys are dumb or you’re stupid, or whatever. He embraces his voice in moments of passion where he’s like still reassuring them, even though his voice is loud.
[00:15:33] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:15:35] Avery Rubenstein: It never felt like it was anger directed at the family, and so it just like, I was so scared by the fact that the kid had no reason to go down that path.
[00:15:46] Randi Rubenstein: Like you wanted, you were like, at least if like the dad was a super bad guy, but like, I mean, this was a normal family and it was a good mom and a good dad and they loved each other. And yeah, like the older sister was like normal and sweet and cared about her brother. Like nor not crazy, overly sweet, but just like she cared. Yeah. She was normal and she was there and she was crying and she was upset and it was a connected family.
Like that was the part that was so disturbing is, you know, and I think that’s the story, that’s the main storyline is, you know, our kids, if kids are at such an impressionable age, are engaging, you know, in, in this sort of, it’s almost like the, this I called it, what did I call it? Um, like a social media underworld. But you said it’s not just like a kid social media.
[00:16:51] Avery Rubenstein: You said. You said it? Yeah, like a kid underworld.
[00:16:54] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, but the reason why I think it’s a kid underworld is because. The undercover cops go to the school to question the kids, and it’s pretty disturbing. Like, for how civilized all the adults were seeming, like in talking to the people that had, what is it called when you book a juvenile? Like he was under arrest but you’re
[00:17:19] Avery Rubenstein: into custody.
[00:17:20] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, he was taken into custody. That’s the word. Um, that’s the term, you know, for how lovely the father was, calling everyone love and bud, you now fast forward to cops going to the, to the high school, to the middle school and high school to question the kids. And the kids are so disrespectful. They’re disrespectful to the cops, they’re disrespectful to the teachers. It was like a shit show.
[00:17:47] Avery Rubenstein: It was the most dysfunctional school I’ve ever seen. That one kid in the class. I kept like shouting stuff out. I wanted to punch him right in his little tiny face.
[00:17:57] Randi Rubenstein: I
[00:17:57] Avery Rubenstein: So annoying.
[00:17:58] Randi Rubenstein: they were openly bullying kids and they were bullying one of the undercover cop’s kids. Like his son went to this school and his son, his son was so sweet. He was.
[00:18:09] Avery Rubenstein: I know. I wanted to give him a hug.
[00:18:11] Randi Rubenstein: I know he might have had a little taste of the ’tism.
[00:18:14] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah. In the cutest way.
[00:18:15] Randi Rubenstein: And he was so, but he was so with it too. But he was getting, he obviously got bullied on a regular basis by the other kids. And, um, they, but yeah, so all the kids were like openly bullying each other, you know, nasty to the adults. It was kind of just crazy. And um, but it was the, you know, the cop’s son who is a little quirky, who basically said to his dad, you know, in his own way, like you might think you’re so with it and cool, but in this day and age, you know, and you and you, and they established a storyline where the cop, you know, supposedly was Mr. Cool back when he was growing up. You know, like one of the kids was like, I hear you were popular.
[00:19:01] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, he was like really handsome.
[00:19:03] Randi Rubenstein: Like, did you, you know, did you get a lot of ladies? And the cop’s, like, I didn’t do too bad. You know, like he was, and, and now his quirky son is ba you know, basically pulls his dad aside and is like, you have no clue what’s going on.
[00:19:19] Avery Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:19] Randi Rubenstein: And then
[00:19:21] Avery Rubenstein: yeah.
[00:19:21] Randi Rubenstein: he decodes what was really going on on all these social media posts, um, that the boy, the murderer was, um, being accused, you know, like all, like all this evidence that they had brought up. He was like, you’re not even seeing what
[00:19:39] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, they thought, they thought the evidence was some, like basically the girl that was killed had been commenting on the killers, um, on the social media posts, like different emojis, like the red pill and like all sorts of stuff. And they thought like, oh, they were friends. Because she was commenting on his post and the kid was like, are you dumb? Every emoji has a meaning. Like this yellow heart means this and this red heart means this. And he was like, and that red pill means she’s calling him an incel.
[00:20:09] Randi Rubenstein: Explain. Explain what an incel is.
[00:20:12] Avery Rubenstein: And incel, I mean, it stands for involuntarily celibate. Did you know that?
[00:20:17] Randi Rubenstein: Well, I, I only learned it from the show. Did you know it before? You knew it
[00:20:20] Avery Rubenstein: yeah. I knew. I knew it before. Um. But basically it’s like a kid that, like no one will ever wanna have sex with him. And so they turn into like the Andrew Tates of the world, you know, like the creepy ones that are like, women are only attracted to 20%, 80% of women are attracted to 20% of men. And like all of these horrible things, like, you know, biologically men are meant to rule women and women are meant to be subservient and blah, blah, blah, blah. Which, gross. Um, and,
[00:20:56] Randi Rubenstein: Those, that, that community you think is made up, the Andrew Tate toxic masculinity, you know, kind of movement, you think that that community, the people who are, are attracted to that community have been labeled incels, involuntary celibates. You think that’s the
[00:21:14] Avery Rubenstein: Right. Been incels or maybe like, have had their hopes with women dashed a little bit. Like, you know, they go for girls and they get rejected, which happens often. I saw a lot of times girls don’t wanna be bothered. Sorry, it’s a different world. Um, but it like they turn it into this anger fueled rage that is like, I need an explanation other than something that I’m doing wrong. It has to be something wrong with women.
Um, I was talking to you about this a little bit and I talked to Baxter about it, but he was, because he asked me, he was like, why are boys so susceptible to that? I don’t understand what’s so convincing about that argument. He was like, did they not see, do they not speak to women on a regular basis? He’s like, I don’t understand, and I said.
[00:22:05] Randi Rubenstein: Wait, what argument, what?
[00:22:07] Avery Rubenstein: The argument of like, men are biologically better and women, you know, you need to tell them what to do. Like, and if they don’t like it, then you make them like it. Like things like that, which is what Andrew Tate literally says. And I said, you know, that biological argument is so strong and as someone who studied, you know, evolutionary psychology, evolutionary biology, like I can understand.
I don’t agree with it, and we’re above our base instincts, but like, um, R word warning. But when men like rape women and they say, you know, the biological reasoning for it is we are put on this earth to reproduce and spread our seed. And if women don’t like it, like, it shouldn’t matter because biologically that is our purpose.
I can understand that. Like, that makes sense. As an argument, but we’re humans. You know, like there’s a reason that we are the most developed species. We don’t operate from instinct
[00:23:10] Randi Rubenstein: We’re not chimpanzees.
[00:23:11] Avery Rubenstein: We’re not chimpanzees and it’s so dangerous because as a full grown human who can reason and use logic, I know that that’s like a really messed up argument. But a 13-year-old boy who just wants a reason for why girls don’t like him and a reason to take what he wants.
[00:23:31] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:31] Avery Rubenstein: Especially when you’re that hormonal, like that’s so dangerous.
[00:23:35] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, and I think the, yeah, the, like explaining what all the emojis mean. Like, and, and a lot of the reviews I’ve read it talks about how, you know, so often there’s art books, movies, shows that are made to try and depict what’s really going on this world of, you know, the internet and growing up with it and social media and how it affects kids and how it affects kids’ brains.
Um, but the reviews I’ve read are that most of the time it’s like a light version or it’s like, it’s almost like an ABC afterschool special version. It’s like done super lame. And kids, you know, kids who are in the know, they’re like, you guys are ridiculous. That’s not, you know, you don’t even get it, but that this show was like mirrored reality,
[00:24:41] Avery Rubenstein: No, they, they nailed it. And it’s, it’s funny because I think they get it wrong so often because it’s hard to articulate.
[00:24:48] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:24:49] Avery Rubenstein: Like what those emojis mean, how it’s communicated, but like the way, like when they went through that whole explanation of like, what each colored heart means and like, you know, whichever one, like pink means horny and yellow means happy and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, I’ve never thought about it with like words, but that is what they all mean.
[00:25:09] Randi Rubenstein: And you are, and you just knew it.
[00:25:12] Avery Rubenstein: and I just knew it. Like that’s just how I use them.
[00:25:14] Randi Rubenstein: and so, uh, where did you feel like. You said that you think one of the, like before we started recording, I said, what do you think the main themes are? And you said, one of the main themes I thought was parent blame. I want you to unpack that. Like did you feel like they were blaming the parents or the parents were blaming themselves or what? Yeah.
[00:25:37] Avery Rubenstein: I think the parents were blaming themselves the entire, I mean, even when like they showed the tape to the dad. He’s sitting there with the kid and he has that emotional reaction. The kid tries to touch him and he pulls away, ’cause he just like. Even though he had that physical recoiling from his son, I felt his self blame. He’s like, what did I do? What did I do? And then he communicated that throughout the whole show. What have I done?
And at that last, that last, um, episode, which was so heart wrenching, I was sitting there crying. The parents had this big tearful discussion of. We created him. How did we create a murderer? What did we do wrong? How did we do it wrong? And they’re going back and forth with each other like, you’re such a good dad. You’re such a good mom. And the dad’s like, my dad beat me. And I said, I would never do that to my kid. She was like, you didn’t. And they’re going back and forth trying to support each other, but they’re both being like, but what did I do?
And it never, I mean, and they didn’t, um, solve that at the end. We were left with that parent blame, you know, when he tucks in the, the, he tucks in, the kid’s bear at the end and kisses the bear’s head like it’s the son. Um, but it was so heartbreaking because as a viewer, I knew it wasn’t their fault.
[00:26:59] Randi Rubenstein: Well, I think it’s like something terrible like this happens and we, we wanna, it’s like when you were like, God, I hope the dad did something bad to him. So at least there’s something that explains this because if a normal kid from a normal family. Like, like really good kid from a really good family could be susceptible to murdering their classmate because of, you know, he’s fallen into the, whatever he is fallen into, he is been, you know, behind, behind closed doors, all on his video games, you know?
[00:27:39] Avery Rubenstein: by the way, for anyone listening that hasn’t seen it, she rejected his, his romantic advances.
[00:27:45] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, well, she rejected him, but we haven’t even talked about what happened in episode three. But before we talk about episode three, which to me was like the most powerful episode of the series, um, I felt like there was, you know, there’s something that I’ve been thinking about in terms of like the parents blaming themselves. Or, looking for, you know, I think it was like somewhere they’re like, we created him. So they’re trying to, I think, have an honest conversation with each other and like do what responsible adults do, which is some self-reflection and, um, and not argue. And, and it’s like we can’t argue with the reality. The reality is, is our son murdered his classmate. And we raised him in this hole, in this home, and, and that happened.
And so it’s like these are good people and so they do what I think adults do, which is like something terrible happened. There was a mistake that was made. Let’s figure out. Why? And um, and it didn’t just, you know, it’s like, I think they knew that it’s not that he was a, so he’s not a sociopath. Like he was a normal little boy who grew up. And so I think I was, I was respecting their self-reflection.
[00:29:14] Avery Rubenstein: I was too, and I, you know what, I take back what I said when I, what I said, when I said it was like not resolved at all. There was a little bit of understanding that they get, that they grasped when they’re like, how did we make him? How did we make him? And then the daughter, you know, was so sweet and empathetic and they’re like, how did we make her? And the mom said In the same way we made him. And I was like, oh. So they know there was outside influences as well.
[00:29:42] Randi Rubenstein: So the part that where my brain goes though is this concept, and I haven’t heard about this really in any of the reviews. Um, well, one review, I saw one with a child psychiatrist, or psychologist too, also agrees with this. I think there’s this topic of generational patterns and I felt like they sort of planted the seed. Um, when they were interrogating the boy early on and they were trying to like understand his relationships, his relationships with his family, um, he said, or maybe it was in episode three. I can’t remember when it was, but at some point he was talking about his dad and that his dad was a really good dad and he loved his dad.
Um, and that his dad, you know, I mean, one time he got really mad and he tore down the shed like, you know, which he said it, where it’s like his dad was obviously in a fit of rage and, and tore down this old shed at their house. And, um. And I’m like, huh. So he is a really, he’s a really good dad. He is. He’s, he feels really connected to his dad. Oh. But there was this one time, so most of the time my dad has his shit together, but there was this one time where he got really outta control and he tore a shed down and a fit of rage, like. That’s something to note. That’s something to note.
And so then when in episode three, when he’s getting questioned by the psychologist, who is a really good psychologist and really knows how to connect with him and, um, bring out his truth. Um, anytime she was trying, she would try to make conversation that involved his dad, he would get very defensive. Did you notice that?
[00:31:40] Avery Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:43] Randi Rubenstein: He would get, he would get very defensive. He was very protective of his dad. And then in that last episode, when the dad said, you know, I promised I was gonna become a very different dad than my dad was. My dad was an alcoholic. My dad, you know, hit me. I was never gonna do that. And yet, and you could tell the dad was a really good guy, but the tension I felt, especially in that fourth episode, was. Everyone felt like they were walking on eggshells around him.
[00:32:14] Avery Rubenstein: Oh my God, when they got back in that van.
[00:32:17] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:18] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah. The dad had like this fit of rage. Someone had written this slur that basically means like, sex offender. I had to look it up. Um, yeah, it was, it was a British slang. Um, he found the kids after they went to like their version of Home Depot or whatever, and like shook the kid up, threw the kid’s bike, splashed, paint all over his own van to cover up the word like insane. And they get back in the car and the mom and the sister are sitting there silent crying, not saying a word. And then when he answers, he answers a call from the kid that’s in jail and he seems normal, and the mom and the sister are silent.
[00:33:02] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, like that made me feel like even though he was working, he used so much willpower to not be the same dad that he had. To not be explosive except for like in the rare moments where he tears down the shed in a fit of rage. But, uh, so 95% of the time he’s keeping that rage, you know, just beneath the surface.
And so even though he is not beating anyone, even though he’s not screaming his head off, even though he is better than his own father was, you can tell it’s still in him. And he’s doing everything in his power to not become his own father. And, and so just because he’s not doing those things, that explosiveness is just lurking beneath the surface and you feel it, and his whole family feels it, and they’re all walking on eggshells around him because it’s almost like he’s a volcano just on the verge of erupting. And they, they sense that energetically.
And so, you know, even though this is a normal family, I think that generational trauma of that male rage, that he’s using everything, you know, with all his might to not behave the way his father did. It’s still there, lurking just beneath the surface, and that has been this family’s reality. That has been, I think, rooted in this child’s existence, is that that generational male rage.
[00:34:42] Avery Rubenstein: And it was the exact same fit of rage that we saw when he was with the therapist. He’s in that room,
[00:34:47] Randi Rubenstein: in
[00:34:47] Avery Rubenstein: she’s
[00:34:47] Randi Rubenstein: In episode three.
[00:34:50] Avery Rubenstein: He’s, she was awesome and she was questioning him and having a lovely conversation. She brought him a sandwich. She brought him hot chocolate, and they were having like a really normal conversation. Bantering, adorable. And all of a sudden she’d say the wrong thing usually about his dad, and he would scream his head off, throw his chair, get in her face. Like, scary get in her face. You could see her kind of shake a little bit. Um, she started crying after the session ’cause it scared her. Um, he’s like, what am I scaring you? I’m 13. What do you think I’m gonna do? Am I scaring you? And she’s so calm in it, but I was like, oh, there it is.
[00:35:28] Randi Rubenstein: There it is. It’s like he just seemed like this innocent sweet boy. Just like the dad is like, oh, love, love. Can you get me, such and such? Seems so sweet. And the kids seems so sweet. Just lurking beneath the surface is rage.
[00:35:45] Avery Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:46] Randi Rubenstein: And, and you know, nowadays, like we know more and he knows more than his father did. You know his, his father was an alcoholic. His father, it was a different time. His father’s beating his kids. But this father’s like, in this day and age, you don’t do that, right? Like, I made a promise. I’m not gonna do that. But yet that, that rage and that intensity is still there, which at any moment you just feel like he could snap.
And now the 13-year-old kid, obviously that is the pattern that he has within him too. And, you know, coupled with all that he was experiencing at school and, you know, the Andrew Tate stuff and the messaging, you know, all that toxic masculinity and all that disgusting messaging and left to his own devices in his room behind closed doors, gaming.
[00:36:42] Avery Rubenstein: Right. The, the part, I had the most a, a visceral reaction to the therapist, obviously, but when, and Baxter also had a little bit of a visceral reaction, they reveal that the girl who got killed, her nudes got leaked and went around to all the boys at school. And he said, when he asked her out and she rejected him, he had gone up to her and been like, Hey, I’m really sorry that this happened to you.
And they were like, oh, like, basically like, did you feel bad? And he was like, no, she was weak. She was in a vulnerable state and I knew I could swoop. And she basically said to him like, I’d never be that desperate. Um, which is mean, but
[00:37:23] Randi Rubenstein: wait, I unpack that more so, so she, she had some pictures that she had
[00:37:30] Avery Rubenstein: she sent to a boy.
[00:37:31] Randi Rubenstein: stupidly sent to a boy who probably coerced her to send them. And then.
[00:37:36] Avery Rubenstein: That’s what he did say that, that he asked for them.
[00:37:39] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. And then, and this was not to the murderer boy. It was some other boy in school. And then the other boy in school passed those pictures of this girl around then ev, all the kids were calling her a slut, a whore, whatever, making fun of her. And so her reputation goes way down. So her social currency, which was higher than his social currency, now plummets because of the nudes that get leaked. So he sees, he goes up and pretends to like, have compassion for her. And you know, and Mike says like, Hey, you know, what did he say? I’m sorry that.
[00:38:17] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, he was, I don’t remember word for word, but he was just basically like, I’m really sorry that this happened to you. Like he shouldn’t have done that to you. Um, would you wanna go to the fair with me?
[00:38:27] Randi Rubenstein: So he then gives her an olive branch, which seems like it’s, he’s just being a nice guy, but then when questioned further, he admits, oh, no, no, no. Her, you know, basically her social currency got knocked down. So she’s in a place of weakness now
[00:38:44] Avery Rubenstein: He kept saying she was weak.
[00:38:45] Randi Rubenstein: She was weak. So now, you know, and he, and he said, I mean, he had a terrible self-view. He said that, you know, he was considered ugly. He was ugly. You know, he was a loser. I know he wasn’t ugly at all, but that, you know, obviously on the social chain, he felt like he was at the bottom. And um, and so now that her position has been lowered, he sees weakness. He goes up, pretends to be compassionate, but it was just all a manipulation and asks her out. And even when she’s in this position of weakness, she rejects him and he gets pissed
[00:39:29] Avery Rubenstein: And then after that is when she started commenting on all of his social media, the red pills spreading things that he was an incel. Like she basically bullied him. Not an excuse for murder. Um, and it just fueled his rage.
[00:39:45] Randi Rubenstein: So, so then, so after he asked her out, she then starts torturing him a little bit. Like how, like, like how dare you? How dare you have the nerve to ask me out, so now I’m going to insult you with all these emojis and the secret language. And that was fueling his rage behind the scenes.
[00:40:06] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, it was, I mean, it was all, it was a story about how all of the factors can create evil, like. I thought it was so interesting that they showed the dysfunction of that school, because I think lack of education is a big thing. I mean, they, the cop said, they’re not even teaching them. They just have video screens up. They’re just letting them watch movies
[00:40:30] Randi Rubenstein: Well, it’s just kids raising other kids. That’s the bottom line. It’s like there’s a book, there’s a parenting book, um, that’s called Hold On to Your Kids. And it’s talking about teenagers and that teenagers are gonna wanna, they act like you’re the last person that they wanna be around, but they need you so much. Because if left to their own devices, whether it’s teenagers or whether it’s just like the elementary school kids who have play date, play date, play date, play date, like kids will just end up raising each other.
And in this day and age especially. Like, like this is what happens during COVID, all these kids, you know, and that’s what the, the family was saying, like, you know, he wanted the device, he wanted the screen, he wanted the things, and they let him be behind closed doors on his device. And I think that was really common during COVID.
[00:41:22] Avery Rubenstein: Well, yeah, I, I mean, I remember when I was a kid and there was this one house that I didn’t like to sleep over at. And, I remember I went over there and they were showing me like, um, there was this one really scary video where a car was driving down the road and a face pops up and I hated it. And then, you know, playing Grand Theft Auto where there were like strippers and whatever.
And I have had friends since that I grew up with since elementary school being like, they showed me porn. I watched porn over there in third grade
[00:41:53] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:55] Avery Rubenstein: And I was like, oh my God, thank God my mom had boundaries and said, Hmm, don’t go over there anymore. Um. There was no policing. Like they were showing other kids the messed upness that was happening over at their house, the dysfunction and like spreading this. You know, so I, I have, um, my best friend actually said, you know, she’s remembers them doing that to her. She was like, it was traumatic. I still think about it.
[00:42:26] Randi Rubenstein: Well, I remember hearing stories and then I was that crazy mom who I would ask before you went over. I mean, that’s why most of the play dates were at our house. Because, and let me tell you something. I had a Scarlet letter in our little community that I would say, do your kids have access to a computer, to the internet, to YouTube? Um, are they allowed to wa to watch that in their room where, you know, how do they access the internet? Um, what kind of screen? Is it like a computer out in the kitchen or do they have, you know, I don’t think there were iPads at the time, but I was like, do they have devices in their own room? Are they allowed to be in their own room on things?
And people thought I, and back then, when you were in like third grade, I mean, that was crazy talk. Because it wasn’t like it is now
[00:43:20] Avery Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:21] Randi Rubenstein: I, I just heard a statistic that 40% of two year olds have their own iPad. Like, have their own screen, their own tablet, their own device. And, and so it was different, but I, I remember people being taken aback. And that particular mom when I said, are your kids allowed to go on screens without adult supervision?
She was like, what do you mean by that? And I had to go in and explain like, are they allowed to be on a device like in their bedrooms, or is there just like a computer in a common area where anyone could walk by and see what they’re doing? Do they have privacy when it comes? And she was like, well, yeah, I’m not gonna police my kids. Like that’s not, and I was like, okay,
[00:44:05] Avery Rubenstein: Girl, they’re nine.
[00:44:07] Randi Rubenstein: I was like, well, I don’t let Avery, um, be on devices without adult supervision, um, in a common area. So, if she comes over, it’s not up to you to police her, but I will, you know, I just want you to know that like she’s, she’ll be calling me to come home or she’s gonna be responsible for policing herself. And then I just like didn’t let you go over there much. But I would say to you before you went over there, if you went over there for like a group play date or a party or something like that, you know, if they had, ’cause they always were having fun things going on. I didn’t wanna say, you can’t go over there. I just ha I just made you responsible. I was like, you know, our rules.
[00:44:47] Avery Rubenstein: I just got a memory of, you know, they had, there was a computer and it was kind of in a back room and, um, I remember going, they were on the computer. I was kind of standing towards the door ’cause I was like, I’m not supposed to be doing, I knew it was against the rules. I hated breaking the rules as a kid, and I knew it was against the rules. And so
[00:45:08] Randi Rubenstein: Except for, except for going into the gift closet and stealing things.
[00:45:11] Avery Rubenstein: Well, that doesn’t count.
[00:45:13] Randi Rubenstein: Okay.
[00:45:13] Avery Rubenstein: I liked, I liked gifts too much. Um, it was, and climbing on my neighbor’s roof.
[00:45:20] Randi Rubenstein: And adding, adding extra time to the timer, counting down when you were playing with Webkins on the computer in the kitchen.
[00:45:27] Avery Rubenstein: sometimes not brush my teeth.
[00:45:29] Randi Rubenstein: Oh, lovely. Okay. Go ahead.
[00:45:31] Avery Rubenstein: Um, but I would linger by the door ’cause I knew I wasn’t supposed to be there. And I was, I was almost, almost honestly like, almost like a getaway, like I had a quick exit. So I think that’s why I never received the brunt of what was going on over there. But I know a lot of kids that did.
[00:45:49] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, because I was on, I mean, I was like, I, God only knows what the mom said about me and probably to all her friends, like because I was crazy. And if you were ever going o over there, it was like special occasion. I was very clear. These are the rules. If you see something, you can’t unsee it. And this beautiful, magical thinking brain that comes up with all of the crazy games that you’re constantly leading Corey through and your friends through. Like those days will be over because you will see an image that is so scary and you won’t be able to get that image outta your mind, and it will get in the way of all of your creativity and you won’t
[00:46:32] Avery Rubenstein: I used to think you were talking about like monsters.
[00:46:34] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:46:37] Avery Rubenstein: I truly didn’t get the sex talk till fifth grade. She really, she was careful.
[00:46:43] Randi Rubenstein: I know when Avery was like 16 and she, you, you said to me one time you were like, how did you, how did you shelter me without me realizing that you were sheltering me? When you
[00:46:53] Avery Rubenstein: So, well sometimes I think back to the sex talk that we had in fifth grade, and like some of the things you said like are hilarious.
[00:47:02] Randi Rubenstein: Let’s not go into it.
[00:47:03] Avery Rubenstein: Don’t me, just like you gave me like a Christian, like a religious sex talk.
[00:47:10] Randi Rubenstein: First of all, that was the one from when you were in first grade and you asked me how babies were made.
[00:47:16] Avery Rubenstein: You said kissing a lot.
[00:47:18] Randi Rubenstein: No, when you said, when you, that’s the other, that’s a different conversation. We digress. We’ll go into that another time.
Um, okay, so back to the, um, yeah, like kids being in a room with the door closed on their devices. Especially like, I mean, 13-year-old. But I mean, I have to tell you now that I’ve learned what I’ve learned in the last couple of years, like I kick myself that I finally gave in and let you have a lot more privacy when you were in high school. Like I wish I would’ve, I would’ve had more rules around these things and kept to my guns.
Like I think I was just so worn down by high school and I had sheltered you guys as much as I possibly could. I think A, I was tired, and B, I was just like, you know, starting to think like you can’t shelter ’em forever. And so I wish I never would’ve let you be on Instagram scrolling forever on in, you know, behind closed doors as a teenager in high school. Like I wish I would’ve had more rules around all of this for longer.
[00:48:34] Avery Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, it just affects, it just depends on the timing. Like for me it was body stuff. ’cause I was scrolling through Instagram models or Victoria’s Secret models or whatever, being like, oh,
[00:48:47] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, but I mean it’s like, you know, boys, I mean, I was just listening and that’s the thing is that boys are affected by different things than girls are affected by, but it’s still destructive. And um, and I thought this show covered all of these very difficult topics in such an artful and realistic way, and I’m so glad it wasn’t more than four episodes because I think they did what they needed to do.
[00:49:17] Avery Rubenstein: They nailed it. Yeah.
[00:49:19] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, they nailed it.
[00:49:20] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah. And you know what, Baxter, I was just talking to him and he was like, wait, so how did the episode end? I was like, what do you mean you were sitting with me when like he kissed the bear and he tucked it in and I was, yeah. And he was like, oh, they didn’t get into more of like what the kid saw and what he was reading.
I was like, no, that’s the whole point is you don’t know what your kid’s reading. It alludes to it and you know, because you’re, you know, you live on this Earth, but like, they don’t need to go into the nitty gritty of exactly what he was doing. Honestly, like that’s more dangerous to give more of a platform to the evil. Like I think they did a perfect job of showing just how discreet and just how, you know, unpredictable it can be.
[00:50:05] Randi Rubenstein: They also did a good job of just alluding to how this boy was susceptible to falling into this underworld and basically like having his brain possessed by all these, you know, toxic, toxically masculine messages, um, that made this, this boy from a regular family, um, go to the dark side and become a murderer. Um, but they said there was one story he shared with the psychologist about how he wasn’t a, he wasn’t a sporty boy and at, and at some point he was playing, you know, soccer or something.
[00:50:48] Avery Rubenstein: Was just thinking about this.
[00:50:50] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, you describe it. Do you remember it?
[00:50:53] Avery Rubenstein: basically, and the dad gets into it a little bit in the last episode as well. Um, he’s like, I was never sporty. He was bad at soccer and they would stick him in goal ’cause he didn’t know he couldn’t play. And he said he would feel himself fumble the ball or miss the ball or do a bad play. And he’d look up and his dad couldn’t even look at him.
And you’re like, no, there’s no way that that’s true. Like, that’s so sad. And thedad confirmed it in the last episode. He was like, you know, I tried to take him to footie, you know, soccer. I tried to, you know, take him to boxing. That lasted 10 minutes. He was like, but in soccer, you know, they stuck him in the goal. And when he would mess up, he was like, I couldn’t even look at him. I was like, ah, yikes.
[00:51:40] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, just the shame, you know,
[00:51:42] Avery Rubenstein: kid, and the kid was arty, he was a good, he was good at drawing. I was like, let your kid be arty.
[00:51:47] Randi Rubenstein: But the dad was a good daddy showing up for his kids’ soccer games. He’s wanting to support him. He’s not understanding because the dad isn’t, hasn’t done his own healing work. It’s like that’s why there’s still so much rage bubbling just beneath the surface that he is using everything in his might, all of his willpower to keep from becoming his own father.
‘Cause you know, it’s not like it’s a guy who’s gone through like deep trauma, healing and therapy and um, and, and released all of this from his own body. So he, it’s, he’s always just keeping it barely at bay. And, and so this is not like a self, you know, actualized human being, and he’s just wanting to be a good dad. And in our, in our world, it’s like, oh, a good parent goes to their kids’ games and gets ’em involved in group and team sports and activities. And so he’s like, check. Check.
And he is sitting in the stands and then his son looks at him and it’s just like a moment and he doesn’t know because he is not self actually, he doesn’t know why. He feels shame in that moment and can’t even look at his kid. And then his kid downloads that, you know, that intensifies his own shame that he feels, I
[00:53:05] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, it’s so, it’s so, honestly, cool. How the kid, we watched the kid murder this little girl in cold blood and you still feel bad for him the entire time. You’re just sad. You’re so sad for him.
[00:53:21] Randi Rubenstein: So sad. So sad. Wanting something to make it not true to like, like I, I’m dying
[00:53:30] Avery Rubenstein: wanted him to be a victim so bad, like I was like anything but for this kid to be that evil.
[00:53:37] Randi Rubenstein: So that I was just, I, me, my brain, my delusional brain was like, I want there to be a plot twist of there was some doppelganger that looked just like him, that was dressed in the same
[00:53:49] Avery Rubenstein: Well, I think I under, I understood the premise of the show too much going in to think that that was a possibility. Like I knew that the kid gets red pilled. I was very, I was very aware of that fact ’cause I’ve listed to people talk about the show. But, um, for me, it was like even though that kid being a victim would’ve been so heart wrenching to watch and probably would’ve honestly wrecked me more emotionally, I would’ve left the show with a better taste in my mouth. Because I was like, ugh, that’s, you know, you can explain that.
[00:54:23] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, I know it was, it was heart-wrenching and important and well done. And
[00:54:32] Avery Rubenstein: And go watch it. Uh, sorry if we just told you everything that happened.
[00:54:37] Randi Rubenstein: And unfortunately very much rooted in reality and, uh, yeah, I mean, I think there’s probably lots of people who are like me, who are like, we wanna believe that he didn’t do it. We don’t wanna watch it. We don’t believe this is happening. Like, you know, it’s happening and we have to know these things. And there’s, I mean, it’s like, I, I’m like, knowledge is power.
So now, and I think watching things like this, especially with your teenagers. Um, I, you know, I’ve heard different things like, oh, this is too scary for teenagers. I’m like watching it with your teenagers who if they are engaging on devices and on social media just like you, like they’re aware of all this going on.
And so now all of a sudden you have a conversation like this is just gonna make your job easier as a parent. So that when you do have rules and when you are trying to keep them safe and your kid is, arguing against all those rules, like now we have a foundation to talk about why we have these rules in place and why we’re doing these things and why it’s important that we keep the dialogue open and we talk about how they’re feeling and what they’re going through at school and what the real deal is. Like, I feel like, like something like this is just a bridge to make your job easier as a parent.
[00:56:00] Avery Rubenstein: Right. It’s just communicating through story.
[00:56:03] Randi Rubenstein: Once again, communicating through story. So I would encourage parents of kids that are old enough to have their own devices and old enough to be on social media. Um, I, I think if you’re old enough to have your own device, and if you’re old enough to be on social media, and if you’re old enough to be on your device or any device like behind closed doors or alone without parent eyes watching every move that you make, I think you’re old enough to watch this show. Do you disagree?
[00:56:34] Avery Rubenstein: No, no, I agree.
[00:56:36] Randi Rubenstein: You think it’s too scary for some kids?
[00:56:39] Avery Rubenstein: No. I think it’s important. I think it’s no scarier than the rest of the shows that they’re watching in middle school.
[00:56:46] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.
[00:56:47] Avery Rubenstein: It’s just more realistic, but yeah.
[00:56:50] Randi Rubenstein: Okay. So parents saying, or even psychologists saying that they think this is too scary for kids to watch. You think those parents are probably just misinformed and don’t realize what their kids are actually doing?
[00:57:04] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, I think your kid has definitely seen worse than that if they have access to their own devices.
[00:57:10] Randi Rubenstein: Okay. That’s good to know. Um, alright. There it is. We broke it all down. Thanks for doing this with me.
[00:57:18] Avery Rubenstein: Yeah, and if you haven’t watched the show and you’re like, oh, well now I know what it’s about, you should still watch it.
[00:57:26] Randi Rubenstein: I agree.
[00:57:27] Avery Rubenstein: it’s good.
[00:57:28] Randi Rubenstein: I agree. I agree. Yeah. Um, okay. Thanks everyone for listening. Bye. Have a great week.
Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.
And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys.
So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, super appreciative.