322: We, The Parents, Are Taking Back The Power Of Protecting Our Kids Online (With Titania Jordan Of Bark Technologies)

AUDIO MMP 322 – Titania Jordan

Randi Rubenstein: [00:00:00] My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. 

Well, hi everyone. I have an exciting topic this week. Might not sound exciting, but it’s something that we’re all dealing with. I’m here with Titania Jordan. She’s the CMO and Chief Parent Officer of Internet Safety Company, Bark Technologies. If you haven’t heard of Bark, you might be, well if you have teenagers or kids with devices. if you haven’t heard of Bark, you might be sleeping under a rock. But we’re gonna wake you up now. Um, and she’s written a new book, Parental Control, A Guide to Raising Balance Kids in the Digital Era. Um, her first book, Parenting in a Tech World was published in 2020. Timely. I mean, was that a coincidence that.

Titania Jordan: I mean, I think it was a God thing. But no, we did not plan, we did not plan to release that [00:01:00] book in conjunction with the pandemic, but

Randi Rubenstein: I mean, and it became a bestseller. Um, yeah. Duh. Uh, we all know what we were dealing with during the pandemic, and I mean, I know what it takes. Like you don’t just like write a book and then release it. So like you were working on that book before COVID was, happening. Yeah. 

Titania Jordan: Exactly. And at that time, gosh, 2020, so my son was 11 at that time, and we were in the thick of it. I mean, all of his friends had unsafe smartphones. Um, so many of them already had Snapchat, which is crazy, right? and he was wanting, wanting all those things. And, working at a tech company that helps to protect over 7.4 million children across the nation, and being a social media native myself, you know, I, I love Instagram personally. Um, I was struggling with what’s the right thing to do for my child? And if I was struggling, I figured every parent out there was probably struggling. So let’s, get some [00:02:00] answers and, and figure this out together.

And then since then, so much has happened. Right. Um, Jonathan Haidt’s book. The Anxious Generation, has really changed the course of the smartphone based childhood, thankfully. And, um, yeah, this new book was, it was time. It was time. Tech moves fast. A lot has happened since then. And we needed to, um, to give parents an update.

Randi Rubenstein: I, um, am so glad you brought up Jonathan Haidt’s book. I mean, this is a topic that I talk to parents about every single day. And just today, I mean, I had a, uh, a group of parents, of twins and teens talking about this exact, topic. And I thought, you know, we’re all struggling with this.

And said to them, I said, you know, look, I’ve been talking about these phones and these devices comparing ’em to drugs for a long time, for a long time, years and years and years. And now Jonathan Haidt has brought that language and all the evidence to the [00:03:00] mainstream, and he’s just making life a little bit easier for those of us who do want to do everything in our power to help our kids have a handle on this. To not let the devices take over their brains, um, to try and be responsible about this.

I mean, our kids, of course, they want all the things because they’re kids and they want everything that their friends are having. But when you’re the only parent like I was, and it sounds like you were in your community and your kid is feeling left out and other, and especially during a time where it’s like the opposite of what we want to do for them. Like it’s already a time, the tween and teen years where they’re gonna feel like, do I belong? Like, are my friends gonna be my friends today?

And so like to have all these rules around this device that the kids are all using and all communicating on, you know, you feel like you’re the villain and you’re just trying to be the responsible parent. And I feel like [00:04:00] now at least Jonathan Haidt bringing it to the mainstream, it makes all of our jobs easier because you’re not gonna be the only one. Chances are there’s gonna be at least another family or two. And, I agree.

Titania Jordan: I, yeah, I’m so grateful for him and what he’s done and how he’s helped to empower parents to say, look, this isn’t opinion. This is fact that X, Y, and Z is not healthy for children. And so what are we gonna do as responsible adults who are charged with their physical and mental health? better choices. Period.

Um, and so many children, my child included, really pulls that lever of, but I’m the only one and I don’t wanna be left out, and no parent wants their kid to be left out. And then what I’m here to tell you today and, and moving forward is you actually do want your child to be left out of the bullying of the graphic, violent and sexual content of the disordered eating related content, of the mental health issues and the addictive [00:05:00] algorithms, um, of the lack of sleep. Of the comparison trap.

You know, you mentioned earlier, you know, in, in that space of the tween and teen years, children are lo looking for that sense of belonging. Where do I fit in? I just wanna be accepted. And because that, uh, there’s that overage into social media now, and not just in real life, they wanna be included and accepted there too. And it’s, it’s not easy.

Randi Rubenstein: It’s not easy. Well Will. Okay, so first, will you give us sort of the overhead view of, what Bark is and why you guys started it and, yeah, I want a little, know a little bit more about the origin story there.

Titania Jordan: Absolutely. So I wish I could take full credit for starting Bark Technologies. I cannot. This company was started by Brian Bason. He’s our CEO and a dad of two. And he was actually working at Twitter at the time. Um, Twitter had acquired his previous company, which worked with influencers, [00:06:00] ironically enough. And so he was super tech savvy, engineering, scientific mind working at one of the largest social media platforms. And his oldest son, um, it became time for him to have access to an internet connected device. And when Brian looked at the landscape of parental controls and filters, he was like, this is not good. This is not good. There are no good options.

And he took a big risk and he left Twitter to start Bark. Hired me, hired our CTO, Brandon Kert, also a dad of two, and a few other key team members, and we got started using artificial intelligence to help analyze children’s connected tech, their digital signal, their texts, their email, their social media conversations, their photos, their videos, all of that, going deep with AI, we were able to pull out areas of danger and problems that parents needed to know about.

And when we first were really taking off, [00:07:00] we hearing back from parents and in fact, um, I’m trying to remember the stat, ’cause it was a decade ago, but I would say over 50% of parents who got Bark at the time, which was just an app at the time, were getting Bark alerts for things happening on their children’s devices 80% of the time. With regards to those alerts, they had no idea that their child was encountering this issue. And that was, that was an eyeopener.

From there, you know, we started with an app that would connect, uh, parents wanted more, understandably. They’re like, we don’t wanna have to use Bark and X, Y, and Z. Can you offer filters for us? Can you help us set time limits? Can you help us keep the tech in our home safer? Whether it’s gaming consoles or smart TVs. So we launched the Bark Home, a physical device that would go in the home that would help with all of that. And even like when friends would come over with their devices, you could connect their devices and help to regulate that.

Um, we then [00:08:00] launched a safer smartphone for kids called the Bark Phone because a lot of people don’t realize that Apple is not a great first smartphone for children, great for adults, not for kids. And then most recently we launched a safer smartwatch for kids, um, because again, a lot of parents will give their kids Apple watches thinking it’s a dumb down thing, but it can still access text, gaming, social media, the internet, and sometimes you might not want that.

So that’s a little bit, a little bit about Bark.

Randi Rubenstein: I asked a couple of my members, who has used Bark? And a mom of teenagers, she’s like, she said, well, I tried to, but I think it was years and years ago. And she said at the time her kids were, and it was before she was working with me, she said the her kids were too savvy. And yeah. So like what would you say in terms of if people had maybe used an earlier iteration of Bark and the Bark of 2025, um, how have y’all rectified that situation?

Titania Jordan: Oh, wow. I mean, leaps [00:09:00] and bounds. In the early days, um, especially with Apple devices, there were some workarounds and, we would alert parents if their children had disconnected Bark, so at least you would know. But that also doesn’t help you in the moment, right? If you’re like, great, thank you for letting me know they disconnected it, but now what do I do?

So that’s another reason why we launched the Bark phone, is because due to Apple’s limitations on working with third party platforms to vendors, tech companies, there’s only so much we can do because of a Apple’s policies and ecosystem. They don’t let other people into their world, ’cause they wanna keep it all within the Apple ecosystem. And that would be great if Apple’s Screen Time actually did what it was supposed to do and it doesn’t. But that’s probably another episode. So we launched the Bark phone for this reason so that parents could have full control, um, remotely, uh, kids could not unlink or deactivate anything.

Um, so much control [00:10:00] actually that, for example, with an iPhone, a child can take a nude selfie, right? And that media now lives on that device and the iCloud can be sent to people. But with the Bark phone, if a child goes to take a nude photo or video, it will not save to the device because our algorithm is smart enough to detect that type of media. So yeah, Bark back in 2015, uh, was baby Bark and now we’re grown up Bark.

Randi Rubenstein: it’s so interesting because this was another conversation several months back where a mom was saying that her son is being left outta things because all the kids have devices in, and he had just moved to a new school. He was in middle school middle school, new school, and he was having a hard time making plans. Uh, you know, really like becoming socially relevant. And she said, um, what are the options? [00:11:00] And we went through and we talked about, well, maybe a watch. Um, so now that I know, now that I’m, I’m educated and I know what to tell parents, where do they get the Bark devices?

Titania Jordan: Yeah, so super easy. You can either go to Bark.us. That’s our website, not Bark.com. You’ll find dog products go to Bark.us for the Watchdog for internet safety. Um, or on Amazon. You know, we spend a lot of time there, probably most of us listening and watching. Amazon. You can get the Bark Watch, the Bark Home, the Bark phone there as well.

Randi Rubenstein: I’ve heard the argument and I’ve heard that kids use this argument too. If you’re micromanaging and trying to control me, how am I gonna learn the skills to manage myself when I go away to college? And what I wanna say is that when my daughter started driving, there was a device that we found that we could put they, they don’t make it [00:12:00] anymore, unfortunately, but it was, it was a device we could put in her car that sent us a score, like a little report card. We got an email every time she took off in her car.

And it would tell us like, you know, basically like accelerated too quickly. Um, all the different things. Like it would send us a score on her driving, you know, in, in terms of safety, but it also prevented texting. She didn’t even have to like manage her own texting it, there was no texting. And you know, the big con gripe with that thing was she was like, it messes with my app for my music. And I’m like, well, you’re fine. Um, you can listen to the radio, you can kick it old school. Yeah.

But, she had that device in her car for two years and then, you know, she was 18 and she was gonna college and she didn’t, and she was like, I’m ready to listen to my music. I don’t text and drive. I’m taking it out. We’re like, okay, fine. Well, when it was time for her younger [00:13:00] brother to start driving. Um, I said, we have to get that device.

Um, and she said, you have to get that device, she said, because what it did was when I was a new driver, it conditioned me to never hold my phone text while I’m driving. Like, it, it, it literally wouldn’t occur to me because I had that early conditioning right when I was a new driver. And I think that’s evidence for what, for what Bark and everything that you’re trying to help parents do is that we’re just trying to condition them from the onset not to have a problem.

Titania Jordan: Exactly. We’re, you know, that’s one of the reasons why the title of my book is called Parental Control because it’s tongue in cheek. None of us are ever fully in control of anything. And once you realize that probably in your forties as was with me, um, you start to have a lot more [00:14:00] peace. That said, you also have a lot more confidence and clarity on, on doing what you can do. Also, it’s called that because so many of us parents have lost control, we have prioritized being friends with our children versus being their parent first.

And so there is that element of, I hear you, gonna be okay listening to the radio when you turn 18. We can talk about this again, but it is my job to keep you safe first and foremost. But we can talk about it. We can, we can come up with solutions. And texting while driving is, is a terrifying thing. I’m thankful that the Bark phone, will allow parents to, uh, detect speed, crash. Um, you can turn off the ability for your child to text when they get in the car. Like we have so many granular settings that are set up to help parents, whether they’re kids 10 or 16. but yeah, that’s a critical thing is to condition the child to not, like you didn’t, shouldn’t even have the phone in the front [00:15:00] seat with you, like put it in the back seat.

Randi Rubenstein: I love it and I love that the phone grows with them, you know, if right. It’s almost like when you have a kid that you know now a lot of people are waiting till eighth, which is a beautiful thing. And so then let’s say, eighth grade. They’re getting their devices and they’re so happy. ’cause there’s been so many kids who’ve had to, who’ve had phones since fourth grade. So now they’re finally, they’re finally getting a phone. And when they find out. This is the option. I’m fine if you don’t have a phone. Like you don’t have to have a phone and I’m fine if you don’t have a phone. But if you’d like a phone, this is your option. It, it seems so much easier than if you have a kid who already has had an iPhone and had a way too much access because you just didn’t know what you didn’t know, and now you have to roll it back. Like what do you wanna say about that?

Titania Jordan: I was that parent [00:16:00] who during the pandemic let her child who was not 13 yet have TikTok and Instagram, uh, because he was an only child and I wanted him to be able to connect with his friends who were already on those platforms. Um, that was a bad idea. Bad choice. And in hindsight, I would’ve not let him have that. I would’ve just let him get on Zooms with his friends, you know? Um, but hindsight’s 2020.

and at that time, after about six months of letting my son on the most addictive platform possible, TikTok, I, I saw a decline in both his mental and physical health. And it was the worst feeling ever because that was my choice to allow it. And I had to talk to him and say, look, made a mistake. I let you have this, and I now know that it is harmful for you. And I know you might not agree and you want this, and it’s gonna be hard for you, but I’m gonna have to shut off this access. I’m sorry I, that was my mistake, but I have to do this. [00:17:00] And you don’t have to like it, but you do have to trust me.

So, at no point, no matter how much your children fight, do you have to acquiesce. You need to trust your gut and do what’s best for your children. You can also find a middle ground. I also could have at the time, if his mental health wasn’t as impacted, could have been like, Hey buddy, I’m starting to see a really, uh, concerning trend. Uh, it seems like you don’t find joy in anything else but TikTok. I see that you’re getting on it, you know, at midnight 2:00 AM we need to be sleeping, so we’re gonna implement some time limits, um, so that you can still be on it, but for limited amounts of time during optimal times. So just don’t be afraid to do the right thing. If your kid might not like it, but they will appreciate it and respect you, whether it’s in a week or in 10 years.

Randi Rubenstein: it’s like my daughter said when her [00:18:00] younger brother, so she was 20, a little over 20 when he was getting his driver’s license and he’s the baby of the family. So we’ve all raised him and we were all nervous and she was like, you’ve got to get him that thing that goes into my car. So that he, from the onset and I couldn’t find it anywhere.

But like she was saying, you know, she was, I mean, it wasn’t even that long after she was like. Even though I hated that thing, even though it messed with the music I wanted to play, It conditioned me to be a really good driver and not to be distracted. And she admitted that, you know.

So when you put those boundaries down and have those hard conversations and are, you know, I like to say to my members, we’re not running for homecoming queen you’re not gonna get voted into the homecoming King, Queen Court. There’s, there’s a really good chance and if 94% of the time, you’re coming from a place of, yes, 94% of the [00:19:00] time you truly are like, how can I help? You know, like, you wanna do X, Y, and Z, I’m here for you. That when it comes to the technology and having to put those boundaries down, like they understand, even though they don’t like it, they know that you’re not just saying no or, or trying to make life harder for them in all these other areas as well.

Like I feel like that it’s like what you just said is like you’re, you must be that parent because your son must, I mean, I’m imagining that was still hard and it was a hard conversation, but I didn’t hear you say like, it was a nightmare. It was a disaster. We, he hated my guts. We were at odds. It ruined our relationship. Like you must have had that foundation of. Building that trust to be able to roll it back like that.

Titania Jordan: Absolutely. I mean, there have been plenty of, plenty of, would say, knockdown, drag out interactions around, you know, and he wanted to play Minecraft, and I was like, dude, for real, you know, [00:20:00] it’s been three hours.

Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.

Titania Jordan: This is not what a 10-year-old body was meant to be doing for this long. Um, so there’ve been plenty of times that it didn’t go as smooth or as logical It’s so hard. It’s not easy. But yeah, we had a foundation of I would say some unhealthy conflict resolution and then some healthier, like, okay, now I can use science and data to explain to you this is the why. Not just because I’m trying to, uh, control you or because I think I know everything. You know, it’s just, it’s not about that. It’s about what’s best for you.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Well, I just heard this crazy statistic. I don’t know exactly where I, I heard it. It might’ve been from Jonathan Haidt in an interview, that 40% of two year olds have access to their own device. What if you’ve been raising a kid since they were two or three or four who have had their own device and now you wanna roll it back and they’re 11 or 12? 

Titania Jordan: that’s a real problem [00:21:00] that we really need to address. Um, you need to treat it like an addiction. You need to treat it like they’ve been smoking cigarettes since then, or having unfettered access to sugar. I mean, it’s the same part of the brain that’s being stimulated. You also don’t have to go it alone. Um, do not hesitate to reach out to your child’s pediatrician or mental healthcare provider or therapist or school counselor for some tips on how to do this. You know, essentially it’s gonna be painful. It’s not gonna be ideal. You’ve given them a dopamine spiking babysitter, pacifier, right? It’s not gonna be easy. So prepare for the long road.

I would say, give or take about two weeks are just gonna suck. But you will eventually see the light. You will need to have some strategies in, in place, a support system, right? So it’s not just you and the kid battling it out. Um, make sure you have other things for them to do, whether it’s books, Legos, paint, colors, some outdoor activities, planned pets, [00:22:00] friends, gotta, you gotta figure out how you’re going to replace this highly interactive thing. Eventually, if you stick with it, you will see the benefit. They will detox and you all will be okay.

Now, I am not a doctor, I’m not a scientist. So the level at which you need to scale back, whether it’s cold turkey or Hey, let’s cut our screen time in half, I would defer to a pediatrician or mental healthcare provider for that level of diagnosis. The takeaway is it absolutely can be done. It is never too late.

Randi Rubenstein: And what about if if you were trying to roll it back and you have a 15 or 16-year-old. this is a kid maybe that’s even driving, they’re in high school. They have a lot of autonomy. I mean, every one of their friends has a device. What your son experienced at 11 with being on TikTok for six months, but it, it’s like they’ve just been on it and [00:23:00] you’ve seen, you have a kid whose face, I call it no-cializing, like they’re a chronic no-cializer. When you walk in and you see all the kids with their face just in the phone, and they don’t even look up, they don’t even notice that there’s a human being in the room or they’re sitting amongst themselves and everyone’s on their device.

So, and they’re at that stage of human development where it’s, I call it the talk to the hand stage. Like anything you say, they’re gonna be combative no matter what. And now on top of it, you want to put down those boundaries. Um, yeah. What would you say about that? 

Titania Jordan: Uh, first of all, I’m right there. That’s where I am. I have a 16-year-old. He had had too much access for too long before I knew what I know now, so we’re still working on those things. Um, I will also say, because I’ve had a lot of calm, empathetic conversations with him. He can realize, Hey, you know what, my mom’s right. Um, so there is actually a bit of a light at [00:24:00] the end of the tunnel with older children and teens where they have enough reason to be like, what my mom or dad is saying is not wrong. I should probably listen to this.

But it’s about how you approach them. You know, if my son comes to the dinner table, face and phone and I’m like, better get your face outta that phone. That’s so disrespectful. I can’t, you know, shut, immediate shut down. Or if, you know, I touch his shoulder and I’m like, Hey, I think you’ve been on that thing for maybe six hours today. We are now gonna hang out as a family the first time all day. It’s gonna be 20 minutes max of your life, and whatever’s happening on that phone, you can get right back to after dinner. Would you mind putting it away? And he’ll be like, Absolutely. That makes sense. So do we always have the patience and the wisdom to speak that way to our family? No. But it is effective.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. No, I love that and I love that real life example. Do you [00:25:00] think that a 15 or 16-year-old, and this is an example from a mom. So her 15-year-old she found out like, she was going on a da like kind of a secret device. They may even have Bark. They’re pretty on top of it. This family, she’s the oldest of four and she was sneaking on this device and it was almost like she had like an AI boyfriend. There was some.

Titania Jordan: Oh

Randi Rubenstein: Bot app and she was going on for like hours and hours and hours, and we’ve cleaned that up. But what would you say like when you’ve realize that your kid has been sneaking or they’ve gotten around, whatever, you know, firewalls or whatever you’ve had in place and now you really want to, you wanna use something like Bark where it’s gonna be more effective and they’re gonna have limited [00:26:00] access and you’re gonna take away these apps and things that they absolutely love, like.

Titania Jordan: Same thing I would say to any parent who has realized that their children have been hoarding Costco sized bags of Doritos under their bed and are eating them overnight. We know that’s not the greatest thing for them to be eating night or in mass quantities. So what do we do there?

You gotta realize the, the pull not only these apps and these screens, but the either real or fake bot based relationships have on our children. They’re real emotions that are being elicited. Um, real neural pathways that are being formed. And so that’s why I say you can’t go it alone. Um, you know, if you can afford to and have good resources in your community, reach out and do this in conjunction with a trusted healthcare provider, because it is not easy.

And sometimes our kids, even though we’re like the smartest, coolest [00:27:00] parents, don’t wanna listen to us. An example when I did allow my son on TikTok at 11, that idea again, um, he fell into an algorithm that was showing him, um, images and videos of um, male teen bodies that were really fit, really cut, but some were like really emaciated. And he became obsessed with the idea of getting like really cut abs, which nothing wrong with wanting to be fit, when he started to ask me, you know, mom, you know, how many calories do I need to eat a day in order to to get this body?

I got worried. Despite me going over charts and graphs with him and talking about what your brain needs to grow, it wasn’t landing. So we made an appointment with, uh, his pediatrician and I just let him know like, Hey, this is what my son has seen. These are the questions that he’s asking. I’m gonna let you take the lead.

And, um, I left the room and he went over with my son, like charts of, you know, [00:28:00] if you don’t eat this much, you, you wanna be, what? Six feet tall? Okay. You’re not gonna hit that if you restrict calories. And just hearing it from a different, trusted, respected adult make it real for him. So much so that after the appointment he was like, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna start eating this and eating more of this and I’m not gonna look at X, Y, and Z. And I was just like, thank you, God.

So, you don’t have to do it alone. Lean on, uh, trusted healthcare providers, but you have to do the work. You can’t continue to let your child access the digital drugs that are harming them.

Randi Rubenstein: I love that example and I love that story. And you know, like you went behind the scenes and you let the pediatrician know, um, hey, back me up here. And yeah, bringing it in from a third party I think is so effective.

I mean, I regret, talk about regrets and me and my daughter talk, talk about this ’cause she joins me on this podcast a lot. And so we can kind of lift the veil and she can speak from [00:29:00] from the kid perspective of this was what was going on and this was what she now realizes she probably needed.

So I held off on social media and um, I didn’t allow her to have a Snapchat. Um, she got a phone when she went to middle school. She, I said, no social media, no Snapchat. She was the only girl in all of her middle school for three years. I had to hear that she was the only girl without Snapchat. Without Snapchat.

Well, in eighth grade I decided to let her have Instagram. And so I said, you know, I’m not willing to do Snapchat, but I’ll compromise and I’ll let you do Instagram. And now what she says is, she went down a toxic, you know, rabbit hole. She was late to, I don’t know if she’d love me saying this, but whatever. She, she was late to, you know, like develop and go through puberty and um, and she went down that rabbit hole and it lasted for years of, of women’s bodies and [00:30:00] Victoria’s Secret models and.

And so this, this girl who literally had just been, you know, she played hard, tomboy, athletic, um, like her hair looked like a rat’s nest until she was nine years old. Like she was, she, you know, she was, she was a fully alive, little feral child and then all of a sudden, all that was sort of undone when she started scrolling and scrolling and seeing all these images and comparing herself, and it really messed with her body image.

Titania Jordan: I’m really, uh, grateful that you brought that up. Because that’s something that is not addressed enough when we’re seeing things about how social media is bad for kids. The disordered eating related content that children are served, and it’s not just disordered eating. It’s the comparison trap, the fomo, the filters at a time where their bodies are the most awkward that they will probably be ever, right?

Um, they’re going to have acne, they’re going to have stretch marks, they’re going to have cellulite, [00:31:00] they’re going to have fat in new places that you didn’t have before. Um, your teeth are not gonna be the brightest white without some help. I mean, it’s just, it’s ridiculous. And to have your sense of self-worth and confidence, uh, largely impacted by followers and likes and engagement and comments, and it’s heartbreaking.

Randi Rubenstein: it really is. I mean, so tell us about this new book and how you’re gonna help everyone, um, how you’re gonna, how you’re gonna help us all figure it out.

Titania Jordan: I’m gonna try. Um, so yeah, Parental Control, obviously tongue in cheek title, is the book I wish I would’ve had, 10 years ago when I had, gosh, a 6-year-old, the number one thing I didn’t have back then that I have now is confidence. Confidence to do what I thought was right for my child, despite every other influence and signal telling me otherwise. [00:32:00] Um, confidence that, even though the world is saying, do this, go here, be here, that something didn’t feel right and I needed to pay attention to that and lean into that.

And not only that, but be a leader. Be outspoken. You know, if, if I’m at a play date with a bunch of moms and all the kids are just on their Nintendo Switch for two hours, like somebody be a parent and say something like, our kids are together right now, they need to play. Not on screens. Don’t be afraid to say that. Like, sure, there might be some moms that give you a side eye or whatever, think you’re judging them. Whatever, get over it. Life is too short to care too much what other people think if you’re doing the right thing.

Um, so it’ll help give you the confidence to be the parent that you, you are feeling like you need to be. it’ll help you give your children, you know, some guidance, um, some age appropriate guidance for, here’s why I’m saying we need to live like this. Um, instead of just [00:33:00] coming down with the iron hammer of like, we’re gonna do this and blah.

Um, it’ll give you, you know, science and data, much like Jonathan Haidt’s book really went deep on science and data. I’d say you can never have enough data. Um, so giving you some research to support the why behind the things that I’m suggesting. Giving you resources and, and, um, advice. Not just, you know, Bark stuff, but all kinds of stuff. Websites, resources, webinars, documentaries, free tools that come with a lot of the connected tech that you already let your children access. So there’s a, there’s a lot in there for what to do, why to do it, and how to do it.

And on top of that, um, I also share my personal story. You know, I was born in 1980 and I grew up in a time that was obviously much different than this. Um, I’m a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and, um, bulimia and a few other things in a time where I didn’t have digital access. And so, I’m grateful for those experiences now because having lived some really tough things as a child [00:34:00] and now understanding the digital world, and how those dangers can be exacerbated by the digital world, I think helped me to make it very real for parents that it absolutely could happen to any one of their children within the walls of their safe home that they’re raising them in if they give them unfettered access to the internet. So here’s what to do about it.

Randi Rubenstein: You know that documentary that featured you, Childhood 2.0? So I watched that a while back and I recommended it to my groups. And one of the moms who has a 14-year-old daughter who they’ve been going through some hard times for the last two years, um, they watched it together. And she said, it just made my job easier. I love what you said about, explaining the why. Like kids are actually like, pretty logical and [00:35:00] reasonable. And when we give them a bunch of rules and we try to instill boundaries, kids need boundaries. We all hear it. You know, really, you need to give them structure. You need to give them boundaries. And yet, when you put down these boundaries, when you, when you have more rules, they’re gonna do what human beings naturally do, they’re gonna resist ’em. And so when you are having conversations before, you just, you’re not just laying down the hammer, you’re having conversations and explaining the why.

Like you even said it earlier, it’s like, like, my job is to keep you safe. You know? And, and, and that’s exactly what I mean by the, I’m not running for homecoming queen. Like, I, if you imagine being in high school yourself, you’re like, okay, there is no drinking. I saw you slip some, some, you know, alcohol in that punch.

Well, guess what? If that was your job and that was what you stood for, the other kids weren’t gonna like you very much, but maybe you may have saved one of the other kids from getting into a car crash. [00:36:00] Right. And so that kid that maybe nobody liked when we were in high school, that was the one who was doing the right thing and tattling on all the other kids like me, and maybe you who were doing the wrong things. And so we hated those kids.

But now we’re not kids anymore. Now we’re the parent. We have to give ourselves permission to get over what we like, no, the cool mom. That whole Amy Poehler character from Mean Girls. It’s a ridiculous character and yet there’s so many parents who are trying to be the cool mom. And your kids, even though they might love that they don’t have the rules that other kids have, they’re actually embarrassed at. I’ve seen it over and over again. They end up being embarrassed that their mom tries so hard to be the cool mom.

Titania Jordan: It’s so cringe.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, it is.

Titania Jordan: The kids say,

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah.

Titania Jordan: They want boundaries. They need boundaries. They may not like the [00:37:00] boundaries initially, but they want them and they need them. And you are not doing your job as a parent if you have none of them. Um, you are doing your child a disservice, and the coolest thing you can do is make sure they are healthy, physically and mentally, and no child can argue with that.

They will try. And you can listen to them. You can hear everything they have to say, but can’t like lean on the data, lean on the data, you know? Oh, I wanna be on screens till 12. Okay, I hear you. I do too, but you know, if your body doesn’t get eight hours of sleep at your age, here are the bad things that are gonna happen. So I’m not a good parent if I acquiesce.

Um, you can also model what we, I don’t think we’ve talked about yet, is telling, telling, telling. Combo, combo, combo. But if you are always scrolling, um, when you’re with your spouse or partner or friends, they’re gonna see that. Um, if [00:38:00] you charge your phone beside your bed at night and or always picking it up in the middle of the night and not sleeping. You’re constantly trying to get the perfect family photo so you can post it to the Gram, they are going to see that. You’ve got to model as well.

Randi Rubenstein: Well, I love that. Guess what human beings hate? We hate hypocrisy. We do. And our kids are no different. So if we’re telling them, get off your phone, get off your phone, get off your phone. And my youngest called me out on this. He didn’t have a phone yet, but he was in fourth grade and he said, could you not pick me up on Tuesdays when you have your call? Like, I don’t like it if I get in the car and then I have to be quiet because you’re on your call that happens every Tuesday. Can you just like, let get me a ride with someone else? Or send, you know, papa to come and pick me up?

And it, it was a wake up call. Which was like, yeah, if I’m saying people come before technology, that’s not catchy, but a mantra that’s always been around [00:39:00] in our family. People come before technology. If there’s a human being that’s in your presence that wants to interact with you, you don’t choose a device over that human being. And that was the rule and it was a consistent rule was the rule at the dinner table. It was rule in the car when they got their devices.

And so he called me, he’d heard me using all of my lingo and the rules with his older brother and sister who had devices and he called me out on that, a hypocrisy. Um, and, guess what? I stopped attending those Tuesday calls and made other arrangements for my call because it was a priority ’cause I wanted to pick my kid up from school. So I a hundred percent agree about that, about modeling, don’t tell me what to do if you’re not doing it.

Titania Jordan: Exactly. I just, I literally just wrote down in my little, like, keep it all together Titania journal, humans over tech.

Randi Rubenstein: Yep. Yep.

Titania Jordan: Randi. Like [00:40:00] it is what it is. You can’t argue with it. 

Randi Rubenstein: And it is interesting because I was just, I was out to dinner, um, with my older two kids. My daughter was in town. We’re having like a nice sushi dinner at one of those like, you know, fancy sushi places and, um, where you kind of dine and they bring you the courses and it, what is it called, omakase, where you don’t really. Yeah, it’s the best. It’s so indulgent and ridiculous.

And anyway, so we were, we were having this nice meal and I said to them, you know, it’s so nice that like, I don’t even have to say anything to y’all. And there’s, there’s no phones even face down on the table. There’s no phones hidden in your lap. Like you guys are now at an age where this, you’re just on an autopilot.

And my son, who’s now 27, he was 26 at the time, he said, people don’t even realize, like you go out to dinner, and it is the norm that every single [00:41:00] person has their phone and they don’t, most of them don’t even put it face down. It’s just face up. He said, and it’s just not on people’s radars. They just never even learned that that’s rude behavior.

Like he goes, you know, look, I have a couple friends who also never learned to chew with their mouth closed, which that’s a whole other topic. He said, but like, they’re not learning like basic manners. It’s rude to have a phone on the table when you’re out to dinner with other people and socializing.

Titania Jordan: Yeah, I mean the more we can normalize, model that behavior, it will become mainstream. We’re just, we’re so early in this.

Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.

Titania Jordan: We’re so early in this. It’s, we’re kind of still like back in the day where like pregnant women used to drink and smoke.

Randi Rubenstein: Yep,

Titania Jordan: like that used to be a normal thing.

Randi Rubenstein: Yep, yep.

Titania Jordan: It seems wild.

Randi Rubenstein: Okay, so your book just came out. where can people get it? We will link to [00:42:00] it in the show notes.

Titania Jordan: Thank you. Um, yeah, again, uh, shout out to Amazon

Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.

Titania Jordan: You’re at my house all the time and you now carry my book. So thank you. Um, barnesandnoble.com as well sells it. Still waiting for to get in stores there ’cause I would love to ho host some meetups and just, talks, you know? Um, but for now, I’d say Amazon’s the best bet.

Randi Rubenstein: And what about, uh, do you have an audio.

Titania Jordan: Yes, I am actually, uh, next week going to the studio to record the audio book, and it should be live in July of 25.

Randi Rubenstein: Good. Um, you have a great, you have a great voice. I’m glad you’re narrating it.

Titania Jordan: Thank you. I was so honored. You know, I pitched it and I was like, we’ll see, you know, and they were like, okay. And I was like, yes. So excited.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Most of the parents in, in my community, uh, they listen to books like this more than they read ’em.

Titania Jordan: Same. Audible is one of my favorite apps. I just finished Chelsea Handler’s book. I’ll have what she’s happening [00:43:00] happening. I’ll Have What She’s Having. And I was just like, oh, yes. Now I wanna go to Myorca.

Randi Rubenstein: I have, I’ve read every Chelsea Handler book. I’m so glad you just, and I haven’t read that one yet. So thank you for putting that in my ear.

Titania Jordan: it’s the best one so far.

Randi Rubenstein: Really.

Titania Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Randi Rubenstein: Okay. Yeah. I love her. I love her. She’s the best. She’s the best.

Well, thank you for writing this. Thank you for being a part of the Bark team and you know, being so early, I mean, like I said, I’m like parenting in the digital age. I mean, we we’re cowboys. Like this is the wild, wild west and you know, we don’t know how to do this. We’re just trying to figure it out. And so, thank you for being a part of something so important to try and make it easier for all of us.

Titania Jordan: Well, thank you for having me. Thank you for the impact in the community that you have made and you have built, and it’s just an honor to to have spent this time with you and here for you or your community [00:44:00] anytime.

Randi Rubenstein: Awesome. Thanks so much. Okay, everyone, thanks for listening. Bye. Until next time.

Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.

And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging [00:45:00] with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys. 

So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, super appreciative.