324: Where Gentle Parenting has Lost the Plot (a convo with Avital Schreiber Levy)

AUDIO MMP 324 – Gentle Parenting Avital Schreiber

Randi Rubenstein: [00:00:00] My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. 

Well, hello everyone. I have a real treat for you this week. I have the amazing, I’m already in love with you. We’ve just been chatting for five minutes before we started recording, I have Avital Schreiber Levy, And we are gonna talk about all kinds of controversial things, I think, in the parenting space today.

a little bit about Avital before we get started is that she’s the founder of Hi Fam. I love that name, and the author of Reclaim Play. She helps intentional mothers break free from modern parenting traps and build strong values driven families that feel peaceful, connected, and confident. Avital has helped over a hundred thousand parents in a hundred plus countries through her courses, YouTube channel, and live events. She’s a mother of five, [00:01:00] crazy woman, and known for blending timeless wisdom with real world tools that actually work. So thanks for being here today.

Avital Schreiber: Randi, thank you so much for having me. It’s such a pleasure to meet you.

Randi Rubenstein: I know. I’m like, can we just keep talking before I was like, we’re, we will just record it. We’ll just record it all. we were, Avital is in Jerusalem, so we got to talk about all things Israel and um, yeah, we just were having a good time getting to know each other before we started recording. and tell me about these five kids. Like what is happening there? You crazy woman and how old are they?

Avital Schreiber: Yeah, so my youngest is four and then 6, 9, 11, and 13. Uh, those are my kids. They’re about two, two and a half years apart. And I know it does sound like a lot, but I have to say, you just mentioned that I’m in Jerusalem. You know, I think five kids in Israel translates to like three kids in the States. That’s the exchange rate in terms of how normal it is. Like I know so many families with [00:02:00] five kids, so, yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: Wow. Wow. I was lucky that I got three. I’m married to a two kid man. He was like,

Avital Schreiber: Mm-hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: We have a boy, we have a girl. Like, what? I, I don’t understand what you want here. And it was funny ’cause when my youngest was 15 I, and I was driving him to school and was just before he got his driver’s license. And we were talking about it and I was like, I’m about, this is the end of an era. Like I’ve been driving kids to school for so many years.

And I said, don’t you think we should have had one more? Like, wouldn’t it make sense that you had like a younger sibling that was like 13? And he was like, yes. Why didn’t you have one more? And I was like, I know we should have one more, but we didn’t. But good for you. You’re a blessed woman.

Avital Schreiber: Yes. Thank God I’m, I’m really, I feel very, very lucky and blessed. And I wanna tell you, I dunno if this helps or hinders, but I’m not sure that feeling goes away no matter how many kids you have. I think for [00:03:00] some people they feel that sense of closure, but I think I often have those feelings, like, oh, should we have one more? You know, should we have had one more? That type of thing.

And I’m not sure that it’s a numbers thing. I think there’s something that’s very difficult about ending that, you know, that that time in your life and that phase of babies and that kind of thing. So there’s no perfect number. And yeah, I feel you.

Randi Rubenstein: No wonder you had to figure out all the things that you figured out. Because with five kids, it’s easy for it to feel chaotic if you don’t, I say, we’re a pack and you’re the pack leader, and so you must be a really strong pack leader, and that must be what you really teach parents and help them to kind of step into more. Like, tell me more about kind of pack leader you are or how you figured this out. Were you just born this way? 

Avital Schreiber: I wouldn’t say I was born this way, but I was very lucky to see, I think, really effective parents in my own parents. You know, we all have lists of things that we [00:04:00] can complain about with our parents and I certainly have mine, you know, my critiques. But overall, uh, I’m the youngest of six and I definitely saw great things that I wanted to emulate.

But when I first decided to be a mom, parenting really seemed like a drag. It really seemed like parents were exhausted, like it was thankless, uh, like it was, you know, messy and sticky and snotty and tantrumy and like, why would anyone kind of wanna do this? And so there was this kind of part of me, maybe it’s my entrepreneurial side or I dunno what side it was that was like, well. I’ve gotta crack the code. There must be a better way. There must be a way of doing this that feels inspiring and interesting and meaningful.

Um, and so I kind of became a bit obsessed with reading parenting literature and studying it. I come from the world of design. This isn’t my field, but actually blending design thinking with what I was learning about psychology and child development and those types of things was really a helpful, uh, integration, I would say, because design thinking is a lot about [00:05:00] solutions, you know, trying to figure out elegant solutions, beautiful solutions, um, to, to simple day-to-day problems. And unfortunately, parenting is full of those.

So, uh, yeah, so that’s how I came to do what I do. And I think, you know, am what kind of leader I am, what kind of pack, uh, you know, what kind of alpha I am or whatever is something that has changed and evolved, uh, throughout the years. But what I have noticed is that in the earlier years I was really trying to take on this very soft parenting approach that was very popular, um, at the time, about 10 years ago. And I think it was a little bit of a rebellion towards my parents who were very authoritative. They were very cl clearly strictly hierarchical, you know, they had rules. Um, they were not afraid to exercise their authority for better or for worse, and mostly for better.

But I was like, no, I’m not gonna do it like that. I’m gonna be democratic and I’m gonna be, you know, egalitarian and equal footing with my children, and I’m gonna unschool and I’m gonna, you know, be a gentle parent and all of those types of ideas. So [00:06:00] I would say that that has evolved and changed a lot. You know, as you have more children, you realize that you’ve gotta have way more tools in your toolbox than just uh, one hammer, and then everything looks like a nail. Um, and you’ve gotta be, a lot more, I think you’ve got to honor the various temperaments that come up as you have different kids.

I think when I was a parent of just one child, I thought, oh, this is what parenting is. And then you have your second kid and you’re like, oh, this is like a completely different sport. And so in that sense, uh, I, I evolved away from those things and I know we’ll get more, more deep into that.

Randi Rubenstein: So what do you, was the temperament of your, or is the temperament of your oldest child? Were you like, this parenting thing is easy. Of course I’m just gonna be the most, like, just come from a place of love and gentle parenting. Were you just like, what is everyone complaining about? This is easy? Or what was that experience like?

Avital Schreiber: So I think my first child would easily be, uh, labeled a strong-willed child [00:07:00] or spirited child. And it was not at all easy in terms of his temperament. He’s, you know, he’s, he’s very persistent and had explosive tantrums until he was six. And actually it was my second child who suddenly was like, he wanted to sleep. I didn’t know what that meant. Like why does, why is my, he literally crawled over to the, to the crib and I couldn’t figure out that he was actually asking to go to sleep because my first child fought sleep so hard, tooth and nail, you know? So it was a very different experience.

So actually it was my first, I made it sound earlier as if my first was easy and then I changed. But no, I was very determined to be very soft and very gentle with my first, and in a way he, he kind of taught me out of that. He kind of taught me that that wasn’t effective for him and he needed something else. Um, but also just having my second child made me realize what I said before, that, you know, there’s, there’s horses for courses and that you do need to adapt, uh, to different children.

But yeah, no, my first is, uh, a very, you know, powerful, uh, personality, strong personality. [00:08:00] And what’s interesting is actually that it wasn’t, I wouldn’t say I found it chaotic or difficult in the sense that I was very well attached to him and really enjoyed parenting. I found, I found it like a delight in many ways, but his temperament was very, very challenging.

The thing is that I was very similar to that as a kid. I was quite explosive, hypersensitive, um, you know, tantrumed a lot, took things very personally, easily offended. Um, high attention seeking, you know, always in the spotlight and, and that kind of thing. And so I could relate, as challenging as it was, I could actually understand where he was coming from.

And I think sometimes one of the biggest challenges as parents can be when there isn’t necessarily that perfect goodness of fit. When you can’t quite understand your child’s temperament or where they’re coming from, or why they behave the way they behave. Sometimes that’s even harder than the hard behaviors, you know, ’cause the hard behaviors, if you can relate to them and you understand where they’re coming from, you can kind of get in their mind. You know, you have [00:09:00] theory of mind and you are able to have that, you know, Dr. Daniel Siegel’s idea of mind sight where you can like see what’s in their brain. And I had that with him. Uh, so that helped with his strong-willed temperament.

Randi Rubenstein: So when you started off wanting to be gentle, gentle, do you now look at it as you wanted less of that authoritarian approach from your parents and you wanted more of a, like, feeling seen, feeling heard, feeling understood. Was it that that was sort of the driver, oh, I’m gonna do things the opposite of the way they did things because like, it’s almost like a deep remembering of what it felt like as a kid to feel and um, and it was their way or the highway kind of thing? Yeah. I wanna know a little bit more about that.

Avital Schreiber: Think that is a strong trend probably that happened to me, and I think that happens to a lot of people is that we just know we don’t wanna do it like that. You know, we remember being afraid or we remember feeling disconnected or, [00:10:00] misunderstood and we’re like, we are not gonna be authoritarian.

Which I think is a, you know, it’s a good starting point and it’s true, authoritarian parenting is not great parenting. Like that’s not what we want. Um, so yeah, I think there was some reaction. I think also it was the zeitgeist, it was the trend, it was the books I was reading, it was the gurus I was following.

Um, and there was a lot of talk about empathy and validation and reflecting feelings and name it to tame it and time in and you know, God forbid sleeping it out or God forbid, uh, crying it out or whatever. Uh, you know, this kind of a very, very big emphasis on feelings. Uh, you know, having an emotional vocabulary, um, and a huge emphasis on connection.

I felt that the story at the time was that, kind of something along the lines of special time fixes everything. You know, if your child’s acting out, you’ve gotta put on your detective hat. You’ve gotta search for the unmet need. They must be hungry, they must be tired. They must not have had enough attention and time from you and that’s why they’re misbehaving or [00:11:00] making poor choices.

And if you just found more time in your day to sit and look at, you know, make eye contact and connect with them, if they truly felt seen by you, if you weren’t so, you know, absorbed on your phone or in your work or in your housework and you really connected with your child, then they wouldn’t misbehave. And I felt that that was really the promise of, of the gentle parenting world, was that if you just put in that bit more effort ’cause you’re not doing enough, then eventually you’ll be able to fix this misbehavior, which in a roundabout way, does suggest that it’s ultimately the parent’s fault.

Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. And what have you come to realize were the holes in that theory?

Avital Schreiber: So I’ll start with just, you know, defending it and straw-manning it. I, I, I think there is something to it in the sense that I believe in a secure attachment. I believe in quality time with our children. I believe in bonding behaviors, you know, eye contact, physical touch, snuggling at bedtime, taking interest in their interest. [00:12:00] Building all those bridges of rapport and connection and friendship.

Um, so all of that I think is great. I just don’t think it solves behavioral problems, mindset issues. Uh, you know, if a kid is stuck in a pessimistic, uh, mindset, if they are feeling defeated, uh, if they have cognitive biases like taking things personally or minimizing good things and maximizing bad things, or catastrophizing or black and white thinking, then you can put your whole life to one side and sit with them all day, every day and look into their eyes and tell them how much you love them, but you’re never gonna solve those mindset issues just through more and more connection. Connection might be the first step, empathy might be the first step, but there are second and third steps that are really missing from the parenting conversation today.

And I do think it’s contributing to what we see in Gen Z, which is fragility. We see a lost generation. We see a morally void, confused generation, and that’s because they’re growing up with parents who don’t give them coaching, direction, [00:13:00] guidance, expectations, um, you know, and I think there’s a kind of soft bigotry of low expectations on young people where there’s this constant excuse making, they’re somehow traumatized.

I mean, I really, I I just, the, the percentage of students who come to me and have a story about how their child must have had some kind of childhood trauma, and I get why they have this story, you know, because when you listen to many of the big name psychologists out there, they’re just always talking about childhood trauma as somehow projection and indicative of your adult life.

And I say to my students, did they have trauma? Like, were they in a car crash? Did someone abuse them? Do you have anything you can point to? And they’re like, no, but there just must be something there. It must be that I stopped breastfeeding when they were one. Or you know, that we let them cry it out or that like they’re just always looking for some weakness in their child, some victim story that might excuse why they’re distractible or why they’re [00:14:00] defiant, or why they’re rude or lying or obsessed with screens.

And I see all of that as big gaping holes in the theory. And I get, I, you know, I just wanna say, I don’t think it’s actually in the theory. I think if you really read the original gentle parenting theories, and certainly the fathers of, of these, this kind of music movement, like Haim Ginott, it wasn’t, it wasn’t permissive in the original text. It wasn’t meant to be permissive. But if you see the interpretations on TikTok, if you see the interpretations at the playground, it has now suffered from many, from what many concepts suffer from, which is concept creep, right? It’s creeped slowly, slowly and slid away from the original intention, which was supposed to include boundaries, follow through, uh, respect, routine, expectations, standards, And even consequences. Maybe logical consequences, maybe natural consequences, but certainly con, you know, certainly not rescuing children from their consequences.

So all in all, I would say, I think the gentle parenting movement has suffered from the same illness of the [00:15:00] self-esteem movement where we were sold this magic bullet idea that if you just inflate a child’s self-esteem, if you just tell them they’re amazing, if they just win a trophy, if you just give them prizes, tell ’em they’re beautiful, tell ’em they’re smart, you know, never let them feel failure, then they will have that confidence. They’ll rise to that occasion and that fell flat on its face.

You know, the research was very clear that you can’t externally inflate a child’s ego. That you only gain confidence through embodied experiences. And actually overcoming challenges and overcoming failures. Um, and someone else can’t do that for you with their words.

And I think that’s true for gentle parenting as well. Your parent can’t, you know, infuse you with resilience, uh, or with confidence or with, uh, empathy for other people and, and or gratitude or, uh, delayed gratification and the ability to be patient, uh, or hard work ethic. Just by spending special time with you and [00:16:00] being very gentle and empathizing your every emotion.

Randi Rubenstein: You’re like a prophet. Um, I

Avital Schreiber: That is a first for me.

Randi Rubenstein: I mean, you just synthesized so much of what I think and what I’ve seen and, yeah, like that whole creep, what it has turned into. I mean, a lot of the theories of gentle parenting I agree with,

Avital Schreiber: Exactly

Randi Rubenstein: I teach. But without pack leadership, without it being clear, I’m the leader of this pack and I’m gonna lead you with firm and loving boundaries a lot of the time. A lot of the time. And we’re, we’ve iterated from the authoritarian model of parenting that many of us were raised, like we’re not doing it with assholery.

Avital Schreiber: Right.

Randi Rubenstein: Good news. You don’t have to be an asshole to your [00:17:00] kids. That’s the best of news.

But you’re also not running for homecoming queen. And, and no one in the history of ever, whether it was a kid, whether it was the other adult, the badgering friend who’s texting and texting and texting and texting you, right? No one ever was happy when someone else put down a boundary and was very clear about what their boundary was by like not responding to the fifth text. Um, no matter how much they beg you to change your answer from a no to a yes, saying it’s just not gonna work for me. No one in the history of ever is happy when we are actually, when we have the confidence to follow through and to, you know, follow through on a boundary and also to allow the other person’s disappointment.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: I think that’s the thing that so many people who are drawn to gentle parenting, it’s like, [00:18:00] oh, I am going to get to just come from a place of Yes. Which I also believe in. Like the majority of the time, I have a joy agenda for the people I love. I wanna say yes. So if I say no, there’s a very good reason that I’m saying no. And, and I think for so many people, because it’s so hard to say no, especially to people that you love, it’s like, oh, I don’t have to sit with my own discomfort of holding their disappointment. allowing their disappointment. And I think that is what has drawn so many people to the gentle parenting movement is like, and not realizing that it is permissive parenting.

 I read a statistic recently that they compared what harms kids more, the old school authoritarian or permissive and permissive actually harms kids more. They really need the boundaries. [00:19:00] Um, so if you’re gonna pick your poison, it’s actually like the, the parenting of yesteryear is harmful overall to a kid’s development, neither one of them, I think is what I’m doing and what you’re doing and what we’re teaching. I see it all the time. People come to me and they probably come to you where it’s like they have been watching whatever social media videos about the gentle

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: just to say it this way. I mean, you know, how do they probably say this to you too? Just, what should I say? What’s the script? Will you just give us like, can you make like a card deck of scripts? And I’m like, are you kidding me? There, that script is not going to work. It’s just not, it, it’s all about your energy. You know?

Avital Schreiber: Yeah,

Randi Rubenstein: and, and you can memorize all the scripts and it can look good on the video. Hey, you know, by the whatever social influencer or pop psychologist who’s [00:20:00] telling you, Hey buddy, I noticed that, and I’m all about empathy. But guess what? When you’ve got a dysregulated kid who’s out of his mind or out of her mind and, and, and feeling outta control in their bodies, what they need from you is not you to ask them questions about their feelings. I mean, it, it

Avital Schreiber: Absolutely.

Randi Rubenstein: it just doesn’t freaking work. And so people come all the time and they’re like, I’m doing all the things my kid is biting me, hitting me. They don’t sleep.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: They just won’t cooperate. They, it’s, it’s like the clowns are running the circus. It’s off the rails. And because of that creep, with that gentle parenting movement, it has made people feel more outta control than ever.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. I think we really have a crisis of leadership and a crisis of meaning, uh, in our parenting world. [00:21:00] And what you said is exactly right. I mean, authoritarian parenting is not good. It’s not good to be harsh and to be a drill sergeant. Uh, the good thing about it is that it has a high expectation of a child.

And there are rules and there are boundaries, and that is good for kids, but it has low support and children need support. And then permissive parenting takes it into very high support. There’s a lot of warmth and love and laughter, and that’s good, but it loses their expectation. It has low expectation and authoritative parenting, which is very confusingly named, has the high support and the high expectations. And that’s actually what children need. And it’s, it’s quite involved. You know, you have to be their friend and their leader as it were. Right.

A lot of people don’t believe me when I state that exact research that you just found that, that you just shared, about permissive parenting being more damaging to children. But I think if you really think about it, it makes a lot of sense because there is a message that comes through when you focus so heavily on feelings and on empathy, uh, and on, you know, being [00:22:00] a friend but not a parent, um, rather than both.

And the message that comes through is that your child, you know, I think when I’m coming from a gentle parenting perspective of I’m just gonna empathize and validate and be very soft and be very reflective and hold space and let them have their big feelings, then you kind of have this message. And a lot of pop psychologists share this idea, which is that the child has this backpack of, of emotions and then they need to unpack the backpack and then they’ll be fine. And you need to hold space for that.

Um, and you think you’re giving them the message, I’m unconditionally here and I love you unconditionally, and that’s a very good message that you’re trying to give them. But I think what the child hears is actually something a bit different. I think the child, his. I can’t expect anything from you. I don’t believe in you that you can overcome this. I will rescue you and save you because you’re incapable. Um, you know, whatever’s afflicting you is so permanent and such a fixture of your character that I don’t even expect you to grow out of it, [00:23:00] to overcome it, to challenge yourself.

And just to talk about the feelings thing for a moment. You know, I’m, I’m an emotional person. I care about feelings. I think developing emotional IQ is all really, really good. Um, but I’ve come to focus a lot less on emotional intelligence as it were, because I think emotional intelligence is often now code for emotional volatility, uh, or emotional weakness.

In other words, it’s not so much about understanding emotions and being wise about them, but rather. Now I find in the, culture at large, it’s a lot about being run by your emotions, by following your emotions, by believing every feeling that comes up. Um, and so if I feel it, it must be true.

That’s kind of one of those great untruths that Greg Luciano and Jonathan Haidt wrote in their book, the Coddling of the American Mind. And they said that, that this generation has been taught that if you feel something, it must be true. And as much as I think emotions can be a guidance system, they can indicate something, you know, if you feel fear, you know, notice is their [00:24:00] danger. If you feel anger, notice, did someone trespass your boundaries? You know, if you feel elated, great. You know.

But when we talk about the negative emotions, they can also be fickle. They can also be false alarms. They can also be a result of skewed thinking. You know, if I think everyone’s out to get me, I’m gonna feel paranoid. But that’s actually skewed thinking. That’s not helpful. That’s not productive.

And so if my parent has been trained in this idea that they should just accept and accentuate and empathize with every feeling and really identify with it, like, oh, tell me more. How do you feel? Draw me a picture. Let’s go to the feelings corner, point to the picture on the wall, you know, all of that stuff. Then it, it kind of makes me think, oh, what I feel is paramount. It’s my identity. It needs to define my day.

And that’s why we see people who need to take a mental health day because of, you know, something that’s happening in politics or in the news, or, you know, not even things that are I, you know, directly related to their personal life. It becomes [00:25:00] insurmountable, unmanageable to deal with. And I think we need to move away from emotional over-identification, from emotional volatility, uh, and towards emotional mastery, where a child learns that, even if you feel it, you can still behave like a civilized individual. Even if you feel it, you can. It’s okay to have a pity party for five minutes, right? Everyone deserves a moment of empathy when they feel something. But then you can also question that feeling. Was it the right response? Can I overcome this? Can I choose a different way of thinking about it? That will make me feel better about it? You know?

And I’d rather teach my kids to master their emotions rather than be run by them, simply because pragmatically, I think that’s a path to a better life. I think you’re gonna have more meaningful relationships, an easier time at work. Uh, just an easier time getting through the day when you’re not constantly suffering from whiplash of, you know, passing emotions, which are fleeting, which are fickle, uh, which can’t always be trusted and which certainly don’t make up who you are, right? The, these are just emotional reactions to stimuli, [00:26:00] either real or imagined, and it’s important. To get up and do it anyway.

You know, in psychology, if someone’s feelings depressed, one of the things that they’re guided to do is to feel the feelings and do it anyway. You know, have a shower anyway, go to work anyway. Try and let your actions kind of boost you back into feeling better. You’ll, and I really believe that we’ve been taught, uh, to follow our feelings, that our actions should follow our feelings. You’re feeling down, you’re feeling sad, you’re feeling hurt by someone. Follow those feelings, express them, you know, act on them.

And I tend to believe that ancient Jewish belief, which is that actually feelings, follow actions. Take the right actions and your feelings will follow. You know, do the right thing. Okay, go, go work out or go meet a friend, or go do that paper that you’ve been waiting to do, or go clean your room or make your bed or whatever, and you’ll start to feel a little better.

And I don’t think this idea of being, I, it, it was a good swing away from the complete emotional suppression maybe of [00:27:00] yesteryear. Right? It’s good that we swung away from that. I’m glad that men are allowed to cry now. Cool. That, that was good. You know, but now we’ve gone a bit too far in that direction where it’s like everyone’s just like becoming a puddle all the time. And I’m not sure that’s of service.

I’d rather that we raise children to be load-bearing walls where you can handle it, you can take it, you can take on more. This will not break you. What doesn’t break you, makes you stronger. Be there for other people. Stop thinking so much about yourself. Start being of service. Think more about what you can give than what you need. You know, the world isn’t that interested in your needs all the time. Like, come on, what do you have to give? Um, there’s some tough love for you, but that’s, that’s where my mind is at.

Randi Rubenstein: I mean, and I, I think sharing some real life stories, I mean, is helpful because the way it looks, you know, all that you’re describing to me is, is, however you wanna phrase it, but [00:28:00] like, if you think about the Karpman Drama Triangle, which is right, like above the line of consciousness, below the line of consciousness. And when we’re operating from above the line of consciousness, and that’s when we’re, we’re really trying to be present in this moment. We’re not, we’re not going on those autopilot programs from yesteryear, right? Like, we’re being very intentional about being in control of, of our own brains, right? So we’re above the line of consciousness. There’s role where we are the coach or the challenger.

And so when we’re, when our kids come to us and they’re all in their feelings because they’re learning how to be alive when they’re living in their emotional brain so much of the time. And then they come to us to be their parent. And quite often that does involve being their challenger and their coach. And so when they come and they’re all in their feelings, you know, being able [00:29:00] to like listen and ask some questions.

I mean, I just did this recently with my, with my son. He’s a freshman in college. And he, my husband sometimes marvels, where he’ll come back here ’cause this is my office slash closet. Like lots of things happen in here. Um, it’s like a mullet, business in the front party in the back. And, and so he’ll come sometimes just be, he’ll hear me talking to one of the kids and he, sometimes he is like, I can’t imagine talking to my mom about the things that he talks to you about.

And he was saying recently, cause he’s been acclimating to, to being away and being in college and, and he’s the kind of kid, he makes friends really easily. Um, but he’s looking for his friends that feel like family like you do when you go to that next phase of life. Right? Um, and so he was telling me that, you know, the guys that he was close to and that he went through pledging with in his [00:30:00] fraternity, well now that pledging is over, he’s feeling kind of removed and he was kind of down in the dumps and he was a little depressed.

And and he goes, I know, it’s my thinking. He said, I know it’s my thinking. And I said, yeah, you’re just in that loop right now. So that’s empathizing. Just,

Avital Schreiber: Mm-hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: you just mirrored back, right? So you’re in that loop right now. And, and I said, did you feel like this when you spent so much time with them when you guys were all pledging together? And he is like, no.

And I said, but, but the way your college is, he, I said, do they all live in the same dorm? He’s like, most of ’em, most of them are business majors and they live in the same dorm. And you know, the way the college is, is they put d the majors in the same dorm. So his major’s in a different dorm. So he has his school friends, and then he has the fraternity friends.

And I said, so think about it. I said, wouldn’t it make sense that they look right and left and they’ve got those [00:31:00] pledge brothers all surrounding ’em. So they’re probably not thinking who, oh, Corey’s not here. Who’s missing? Right? But you’re the one over here. And while you’re enjoying your school friends, you still wanna be involved with them, but you don’t live over there with them.

Is it always gonna be equal? Like you invite them or you reach out to them, then they reach out to you? Or do you just understand, of course they’re not thinking about me. I live over here, so I’m gonna be doing more of the reaching out and I don’t have to feel like a loser. I’m just being a proactive human being and making the effort because I don’t have the, you know, I don’t have the benefit of just taking it for granted and living there with them.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: He was like, he was like, that’s so true. I. was it. That conversation it, but it was not me just sugarcoating, oh, I bet they really like you. Oh, did they hurt your feelings? Oh, maybe they’re just not [00:32:00] your people.

Avital Schreiber: Right.

Randi Rubenstein: Let’s think about this in a more pragmatic way. And that was challenger. That was me, you know, challenging him to think about this, to, to step out of that victim role, you know?

Avital Schreiber: That can change the whole course of college for him, right? Because instead of constantly feeling like I’m being left out, I’m being passed over, they’re not noticing me. Why is it unequal? It’s not fair. Right? And getting in that victim mindset, you helped him to reframe and to come into it from a different mindset.

And I think that is what our children need. They don’t need just more, A bit of empathy is great, but he got something much more valuable than just being seen and understood, which was actually a reframe that is, like you said, pragmatic, but also just really healthy. Like no one needs to go through the next few years feeling a bit left out or rejected. That can, that can leave a mark that’s unnecessary.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. You know, I did empathize in the, first of all, it’s super normal. Like everyone has, we have this primal sense of belonging. We’re always looking for that.

Avital Schreiber: Sure.

Randi Rubenstein: And [00:33:00] so when you see this group that you feel like you go with, but they’re all together and you’re over here, of course that’s gonna activate, I’m, I don’t belong. What was I thinking? Like, that’s normal. And take it a step further.

And, and why don’t you question, is that actually true or circumstantial? I don’t live in the same place as them. Kind of seems like that could be true. I don’t know. You tell me. And no

Avital Schreiber: Hmm

Randi Rubenstein: I think that is true. Right? And

Avital Schreiber: hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: that’s the conversation. And I think that’s what people don’t know how to do. Because when your kid comes to you and they’re, not feeling like they belong or people don’t like them and they’re depressed and they’re upset, it’s so uncomfortable for a parent to hold that and allow it. And then to say, well, let’s, let’s break this down and see if it’s even true, because I think we get so all up in our feelings. We just want it to all go away.[00:34:00] 

Avital Schreiber: Yeah, I think that is true. And one of the reframes that really helps me with that is that I love to think, especially in childhood when kids are young, I love to think about low stakes, negative experiences being very healthy for them in the sense that it inoculates them. So kind of like what we know about raising children in a very, very sterile environment where they don’t get exposed to any germs, you might think, well, that’s protective, but we know that it isn’t, that they have to get some exposure in order to develop their immune system. And in fact, if they don’t, they’re gonna be a lot more fragile and a lot more susceptible to germs, um, that could really harm them in the future.

And so I think yes, as parents we’d like to avoid disappointment and frustration, rejection and sadness. Um, but, when you didn’t get to sit in the right seat, or when someone didn’t invite you to their birthday party or when you, you know, your favorite cereal was out of stock or whatever. These are very low stakes, disappointments, you know, [00:35:00] small children, small problems. And if it is those kind of problems, and by the way, a lot of children go through much bigger problems. You know, they go through disease in the family, divorce in the family, living through war, living through disaster.

Um, so sometimes it’s much higher stakes. You know, my children run into missile shelters. And I’m not sorry about that. I know that sounds really unempathic. I probably come off as really unempathic of this whole conversation, but it’s actually from the opposite place. It’s because I want them to be strong. I know that life has ups and downs. There are tough things that you have to face. No one is immune to grief and loss. No one is immune to a bout of bad luck or to bad actors in their lives, um, or to rejection or whatever it might be. And therefore I really, you know, first I get a little, you know, pain in my heart when I see my kids suffering and then I think, no, it’s good, it’s good for them.

And that’s a little bit like when your kid, you know, I dunno, gets chicken pox or something and you’re [00:36:00] like, Ugh, I don’t wanna see them in pain. But then you’re like, well, okay, it’s better to be immune in childhood and that is important and we’re losing that. We’re losing that because of the concept creep that we spoke about earlier where now we define almost any negative experience as trauma.

We think of any negative experience as having long, long-term lasting damage on children’s psyche. And I think we’ve been taught to really dig into our own histories. And there’s something to psychoanalysis and understanding your history and that kind of thing, but that too can go overboard and you can start to read into and really embed meanings that aren’t necessarily there, or suggest memories that didn’t necessarily happen that way. And, put so much emphasis on childhood difficulties and, and turn it into traumas that then somehow affect us for the rest of our lives.

I don’t think that’s a helpful narrative. I don’t think that’s empowering. I think it’s better to see childhood struggles, especially first world struggles, right? Especially little things, um, which don’t seem little at the [00:37:00] time. Your child not being invited to the sleepover seems like a big deal at the time. But when you see it in the per perspective of the types of things that humans can suffer through, you think, okay, you know, good. Like, let my child learn to wait. Let my child be frustrated, let my child get rejected. Let my child experience those things in low stakes ways that they are going to easily bounce back from and overcome so that they are more able to, uh, contend with those emotions and those experiences in the future and even bigger things.

I just wanna say that I think it’s important to note that even when people go through an objective traumatic experience, that everyone would agree that is a trauma with a big T. Only about 10% of people have lingering symptoms from that. Most people recover spontaneously. People are exceptionally resilient and anti-fragile and able to grow stronger, not weaker from difficult experiences.

And I say that as someone who has overcome clinical PTSD. You know, it’s not the worst thing to go through something [00:38:00] difficult and traumatizing because it can give you a lot of gifts. It can damage you, it can crush you, and we don’t wish it on anyone. And you don’t wanna orchestrate trauma for your child, but also don’t protect them from normal, you know, challenges of growing and overcoming because just like a baby has to fall to learn to walk, uh, that’s true really throughout life, you know, in every, in every different area of our lives.

And so I think that little bit of empathy is very nice and very good and, you know, preserves our bond. But then you mustn’t uh, you mustn’t then go into rescue mode or like you said, you know, oh, they’re not your people. You know, I’ll, I’ll call them up. I’ll let me speak to their mom. Let me, you know, uh, you mustn’t go into that mode because you’ve really gotta let your child develop that immunity for themselves. You, we, you know, we owe it to them to, to, to grow into strong individuals who can handle what life might throw at us.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, post-traumatic growth, um, is a real thing and

Avital Schreiber: Very much so.

Randi Rubenstein: I don’t know if, uh, I love when I heard [00:39:00] Peter Levine, um, who is the founder of Somatic Experiencing and his, I, a lot of people have read the book, the Waking, I think it’s called Waking, Waking the Sleeping Tiger, or something like that. But I’ve heard him describe, you know, trauma is not just, it’s not that something bad happened to you, it’s that something bad happened without a compassionate witness to help you process it.

Like this, this experience, this human experience, it’s messy. And we’re going to, our kids are gonna, even if we make them bubble boys and girls, or we think we are, gonna go through things. And so it’s like learning to sit with your own discomfort of when they go through something hard and allowing them to process with you and being that compassionate [00:40:00] witness.

One of them mistakes I think people make so often is they try to rush through and like offer the bright side. And being a compassionate witness is, oh, you know, Corey, you’re feeling a little bit removed from your friends. It’s of course it’s activating that belonging need. We all have it in us.

Avital Schreiber: Mm-hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: You know, I mean, that’s not a trauma that he’s going through, but even when it’s something that is actually traumatic, some they get left out of the thing or you know, let’s say something even worse. Like they have, they made a mistake and they, a girl sent an image and the image got spread around school and now everyone’s calling her a slut. And that is something that could be a trauma that lives in her, that shapes her identity for the rest of her life.

But how do you handle it? If you’re her mom she comes,

Avital Schreiber: Hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: and you’re like, wow, like you’re a [00:41:00] teenager. Teenagers impulsive. Like I, it’s the wild, wild west growing up with this technology.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: you, you had, you made a mistake, you made a bad judgment call. We’ve all done some version of that and now everyone at school is seeing that and that feels terrible, I’m imagining. Thank you so much for telling me and letting me in and not just keeping this bottled up inside. Like that’s a very big deal to me, that you’re trusting me.

Right? So we’re not rushing to like fix it, solve it, do the damage control. We’re just processing it. And being a compassionate witness, chances are, yes, that girl is gonna remember this event, but it’s not gonna shape her identity for the rest of her life.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah, I mean, I a hundred percent agree with you. I think being a compassionate witness and being empathic is the first stage and we, and you don’t need to rush into coaching. Um, and I also think there is a place to follow up on [00:42:00] that, not just to stay in that, because I think one of the things that we know is protective of trauma is also making sense of what’s happened, right? Making chrono chronological order simply what has happened.

Because trauma shocks the brain in a sense that we’re so unprepared for it and makes a muddle, right? And it throws us into that victim experience of being helpless. And then when you can make sense of what happens, you can re-empower yourself into the hero rather than the victim, right? Where you can start to, even if, if a child just, uh, skins their knee right, they’ll often wanna relive it and talk about it. I fell and I skin my knee. And just understand, yeah, you were rushing so fast and you didn’t see that stone and then you fell and then you skimmed your knee and that’s why it hurt so much. Right. And literally just making sense of the chronological order of things.

They do this with soldiers who were coming back from battle. No one’s asking them how they felt. No one’s saying, how did you feel and how did you feel? That must have been so scary. Of course, it was so scary. No one’s asking them those questions. Instead they’re saying, okay, and then what did you do? And then what did you do? And then what did you do? Just make sense of your memories [00:43:00] so that they are, uh, chronological, so that they’re not just a muddle in your brain. Right. And that also is really, really protective.

I think you actually touched on a word that I think is also really important, which was identity. Just on the theme of controversial subjects, I would just say that I do think that one of our roles as parents, and this is something I drive towards very strongly in my work, is creating a sense of belonging and community and identity that children feel like they’re part of something that’s bigger than just themselves.

And I think a big issue in the gentle parenting world, I would say this a broad umbrella term, but is a hyper focus on individualism. And I think individualism is good. It’s great to see our children as different and as unique, uh, and to meet them where they’re at. And we’ve spoken about different temperaments that, that demand different things of us as parents and all of that.

But I think it’s gone to a place that’s been very detrimental to, to kids because I think, uh, especially teenagers actually really need a sense of belonging to something that is bigger than [00:44:00] just their preferences. And we have a big emphasis in our culture on, you know, what’s your favorite this, and what do you wanna be when you grow up? And, you know, just kind of narrowing you down to, and now it’s become also about your identity in terms, okay, what’s your sexual orientation? What’s your gender identity? What’s your aesthetic vibe? What’s your, uh, who do you follow, you know, all these kind of labels and external identities that kids are, you know, experimenting with.

And, and, and there was that at the eighties too. You know, there was the goths and the punks and the, uh, emo emos and all of that. Fine. But what is really necessary for kids, I think, is to feel a sense of identity that is more than just their choices and their aesthetics. It’s more than a costume that you put on. It’s more than, you know, a, a bio line. Um, it’s a, a deep sense of rooting. Where do I come from? Who are my grandparents? You know, who are my parents? What values do we stand for? What kind of culture are we, uh, building? What’s the expectation of me? You know, what’s the mantle that I am burdened with? Uh, a sense of duty or obligation?

I know these are very old [00:45:00] fashioned words, but those types of things are very, very missing today. And I think they are very protective in the mental health space. They really create a sense of resilience and mission and, and meaning, when children, you know, grow up knowing that they belong to something, right?

And it doesn’t have to be a national identity or a religious identity, although it could be those things. It can also be a family identity. It can be, this is how we do things around here. This is what we believe in. Hey, this is our origin story of, you know, my grandparents were immigrants, or, you know, how your dad and I met and why that was so important, or whatever it might be. Uh, that help them to form a sense of, of belonging, uh, to something that’s, that’s a bit beyond them.

And then I think, okay, you go through something terrible like, oh God, you shared the wrong picture and it got circulated in school. That’s gonna be terrible no matter what. You’re gonna be ashamed and embarrassed and, and it’s gonna be very difficult. But, if your whole sense of identity is not just built on your image on Instagram or what people say about you in school, but you also have a certain [00:46:00] grounding of, Hey, you know, we have certain traditions at home. We have a belief system at home. We have the songs that we sing and the mantras that we have and the wisdom and the connection and, you know, that goes back to my grandparents or to my great grand, you know, something that’s a little bit more grounded.

And, and I think that could be very helpful because you’re not just a silo out on your own, a lone wolf. Like good luck in the world. Sorry we dunno how the 21st century works yet. You know, it’s something, uh, that gives you that sense. You know what, there was wisdom. Something’s been carried through. You know, I, I am part of something. And I think that can be really helpful. And I, I, I think, I think we could bring that back. I think we could bring that back in the modern day.

Randi Rubenstein: I agree. I agree. And it’s my, my oldest son, years ago we were talking about something and, somebody lied about something. I don’t know. We were just all sharing stories around the table. And Alec said, Ugh, we hate liars. And I said, [00:47:00] you know, I know nobody’s teaching, like, it’s like, oh, when you’re, you’re talking about your core values, use the word hate. Um, and,

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: and he’s, he’s, you know, he’s funny. He’s never gonna be serious, but he was like, we hate liars. He was just kind of, and I was like, we, I just stopped. I was like, we hate liars. We are truth tellers. And that is a core value that is part of our identity.

Really, like, it’s not even just about like, you will not lie to me it’s, it’s what is your actual truth? Like, it is safe here to share your truth, to be in your truth, even if that means it’s a messy truth, it’s a safe zone. There’s no reason to lie. And, and so I thought it was funny when he said it, ’cause I was just like, we hate liars. Yeah. In the famous, and I’ve quoted him so many times, I’m like in the, well, you know, in the famous words of Alec Rubenstein, we hate liars.

Um, but that is part of, our family identity is [00:48:00] that there’s no reason to lie here.

Avital Schreiber: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: This is a safe zone to tell the truth. Even when you don’t feel proud of a thing that you did or said. That’s okay. We can tell the truth here. So I a hundred percent agree with,

Avital Schreiber: Mm.

Randi Rubenstein: yeah, that the identity is, is beyond one person.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: and that I think, I think we are missing. So, I mean, I think purpose, you know, when I help a parent who’s like, lately there’s been a theme of Moms who were like new moms that are working with me, that I can tell there’s just a lack of the pack leadership, right? So

Avital Schreiber: Mm-hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: there’s this constant, battle between their kids. It’s almost like there’s a, you know, if the mom has two kids, it’s like a, there’s a, the threesome friends, and it’s like one person’s always letting, you know one, one person, everybody’s fighting for their attention and then [00:49:00] somebody’s being left out.

And so this was happening between these moms and these two kids. And I said, let’s focus on giving your older kid purpose. The older child, instead of fighting against the younger child, and then teaching the younger child to fight against them. And it’s all for your attention. Let’s make the old, let’s put the older child to work. They’re your mommy’s helper

Avital Schreiber: Totally.

Randi Rubenstein: Once you’ve got a kid that reads, they’re reading and, and, and so many of the moms were like, but wait, I’m supposed to be reading. Like for uh, to be a good mom, to hold onto that identity. I need to be the one doing all the reading. I’m like, no, you don’t. Put that older child to work. Let them feel purposeful.

It’s that purpose of we’re ra we’re raising your younger sister together. Do [00:50:00] we want her to go to school and to think when she wants something from someone to grab it out of their hands? Like, we gotta teach her civilized behavior. And she looks up to you as much as, you know, you look up to me. Um, so we’ve gotta do this together. Are you in? Like, give them some purpose? I think people have forgotten about that.

Avital Schreiber: I love that advice. I actually think I, I answered a question just today with very similar advice, which is when kids are at a loose end and they’re bored and they’re picking on their siblings, it’s exactly the time to say, wait, this kid needs more chores, more responsibility, a leadership role, like you’re saying, mother’s helper, read your sibling a book. How about you cook dinner? How about you fold the laundry? How about you go and get a job walking the neighbor’s dog? There’s so much to do. Why don’t you go and do it?

I think that’s a great thing. And I do think that kids, uh, in our modern day culture have been kind of, you know, throned up, right? They’ve been put on a throne and they’re just, we, we we’re waiting on them hand and foot, we’re these glamorized babysitters and chauffeur and chefs just fulfilling their every need. And I [00:51:00] think one of their needs is the need to have meaningful work and a meaningful, uh, you know, skill development and, uh, to feel like, oh, I’m part of something. I can, I’ve got something to give. I’m not just being waited on hand and foot, you know, I’m actually needed.

Um, one of the things that people really need is to be needed and children aren’t needed for quite a long time. They’re needed for love, but they’re not needed, uh, in the sense that other people depend on them. And I think that’s very strengthening. You know, we spoke about being a load-bearing wall. One of the things that really strengthens our muscles and our spine, for example, is when we put load on it, right? You, you actually can’t grow a strong spine unless it’s experienced some lifting of some weight. And so it’s very good for children to lift that weight and to to be, uh, you know, purpose driven in that way.

And I think I. It goes a long way because there is a real, you know, epidemic of nihilism among young people. We really see young people just not sure what they’re living [00:52:00] for, which is tragic and desperate. You know, really just not sure.

Randi Rubenstein: Will you define that word? Just 

Avital Schreiber: Yeah. That, so that’s exactly what it means. It’s when you are not sure that there’s any purpose of being alive, even, right. When you kind of give up, it’s a helplessness, like what’s it all for? It doesn’t mean anything. It’s kind of a skeptic, skeptic outlook on life. Uh, skeptical outlook where you just feel like you, what’s, there’s no purpose. There’s no meaning, there’s no drive. And it’s kind of the opposite of having a passion or a purpose or a meaning or, uh, and, and we see, we see that in, you know, illnesses of despair or deaths of despair, uh, God forbid, like suicide and self-harm and depression and anxiety. Those are all illnesses that are related to being despairing.

And I think that does, you know, that is heavily correlated and probably caused by a tremendous emphasis on just, you know, your wants and needs and desires and what, you know, just, just [00:53:00] feel your feelings and express your feelings and just fulfill yourself and just be happy. You know, parents are always talking about, I just wanna raise happy kids, happy healthy kids.

Um, but being happy is not such a great goal. It’s more byproduct of a meaningful life. You know, if you lead in meaningful life and you have satisfying relationships, then you’ll get to experience some happiness. Um. But it, it’s very hard to just aim towards happiness, right? I’m not sure it’s such a, such a healthy aim. And I think then you often end up actually aiming towards just hedonistic pleasure, which runs out very quickly and leads to this sense of, of despair and nihilism.

And so, yeah, I think starting from a young age, the feeling like, no, no, no, you are here for a reason. People do need you. You have something to give. it helps me when you read your siblings a book, it helps them. It’s, you know, or when you bring me the laundry or whatever it is that you’re doing, the small things, the bigger things. Uh, I think those things are really protective to kids. They’re really helpful to them. It raises them strong.

Randi Rubenstein: Ugh. This is so good. Is there [00:54:00] any final thoughts that you want to share with anyone who’s listening? Um, just to kind of wrap up? we’re gonna put all your links in the show notes, but,

Avital Schreiber: Thank you.

Randi Rubenstein: yeah, I would love to hear what your final thoughts or anything you wanna leave the listeners with.

Avital Schreiber: My final thoughts are, I hope encouraging and not discouraging, which is that you are the leader, like you said, you know, you are, you’ve got that pack leader energy. And so I, I think we’ve gotta move step away from the, ridge of outsourcing, parenting. You know, I think for a moment there we thought that we could just play it really soft and kids could just be on screens and go to school and they’ll be okay.

And I, I, I think there’s a huge role in being a parent. It’s a big, uh, responsibility. We all know that. But that shouldn’t crush you. You don’t need to crumble under that weight. You don’t need to feel constantly anxious and guilty and second guessing yourself or, or doubting yourself. You can, uh, [00:55:00] take that as a call to adventure.

And I say that because I think a lot of moms, this was me at various times, felt really overwhelmed by the unfairness of it all, the overwhelm of it all, the weight of it, all the exhaustion of it all. Uh, chaos. Uh, conflicts. Clutter. You know, it’s, it’s not, I’m not for a moment saying it’s a walk in the park, but what I am saying is that a lot of people today are feeling like they’re leading a bit of a meaningless life, are searching for purpose. And I think we, parents are really privileged because parenting is like a shortcut to meaning.

It’s by definition a meaningful endeavor, right? There isn’t a parent in the world who doesn’t feel on a gut, intuitive level, and I’m not sure I can properly articulate it. just how powerful, uh, that love is, just how purposeful that role is. And rather than shying away from it or crumbling under the pressures of it, I think if we rise to [00:56:00] it and we say, you know what, this is my Mount Everest, this is my Olympics, this is my moon landing. You know, it’s hard and it’s big and it’s epic and it’s legendary and it demands, you know, a real reigning in of energy, time after time and climbing the next step and the next step. And sometimes it’s trudging through but there is a huge trade off to that, a huge payoff, I would say, uh, to that. It’s worth it is what I’m trying to say.

And I think we’re lucky because we have this kind of meaning making machine in our lives, which is family. And family, you know, people say that culture, that politics is downstream from culture, right? That whatever’s happening in the culture and the zeitgeist and the vi, you know, whatever the celebrities are doing, then trickles down into politics.

And what I wanna say is that culture is downstream from parenting. Everyone was parented by someone. Everyone grew up in a household with a particular culture. And we are CEOs in our family, we’re [00:57:00] founders. You’ve created something, you worked hard for it, it doesn’t come easily to find a partner and have a kid and, you know, settle down and create a home. And so you are literally, literally shaping the future.

And, you know, many of us are looking for meaning in our life. Oh, what am I doing with my life and how am I gonna affect the future? And there’s so much trouble out there and so many bad things. And I’m like, hold up, hold up. Are you a parent? You’re set. You are good. You know, you have the route, and it’s through this relationship, and it’s through being this leader, and it’s through creating the culture in your home. Right? We can’t fix the culture out there, but we can fix the culture in here, in each of our homes for it to have respect or hard work or love or, you know, empathy or all these good things.

And so I think that that can be very exciting. It can be daunting, but with the right tools and with the right support, it can be really, really exciting. And our kids need that and they deserve that. And so do we. I definitely saw firsthand a lot of parents who feel like victims feel like, Ugh, it’s so [00:58:00] unfair and it’s so hard. And the mental load and the overwhelm and the, you know, really feel taken for granted or used or just exhausted and depleted. And we all have those days, but that’s no way to live. It’s not, it’s not a way to live, to go through your life feeling like a victim.

Um, so I wanna just encourage parents listening to this to step into this role with a bit of a pep in your step with some energy where there’s some excitement. It’s exciting, it’s meaningful. There are peak moments to be had. There are gonna be down times too, but there are some peak moments where you just look around and you think, oh my God, pinch me. Like, this is so powerful and meaningful, and I’m so glad that I, I get to be part of it.

Randi Rubenstein: Yes. Uh, everything you just said, you’re a breath of fresh air to me because I am also a glass half full kind of person. And I think it’s, especially when it comes to parenting, I think parents are used to bonding over the glass being [00:59:00] half empty and how hard it is. Yes, we know it’s hard, but what you focus on grows.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: So let’s focus on the adventure. Let’s focus on the fact that we’re in positions where we are shaping the next generation of human beings.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: That’s a lot. And so yes, the culture out there is trying, especially for women. Trying to take many rights away and they have. But here in this home, in each of our homes, we have the ultimate authority. We can step into this pack leadership. And many of us haven’t maybe figured out how to do that quite yet. But I would say just add yet. Because that’s why you’re here. That’s why

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: you’ve listened to this conversation today, because I can tell that that’s what you do in your home Avital. And help other parents do. And same here. And um, I think it’s a [01:00:00] movement. And the more of us that do it, there’s just the ripple effects and

Avital Schreiber: Mm-hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: it will become the norm. So we’re gonna offset that creep that you brought up

Avital Schreiber: Yeah,

Randi Rubenstein: before. 

Avital Schreiber: Absolutely. You know what, Randi, can I just add something a little heavy? But it, you just made me realize something I hadn’t quite thought about in that way, which was that I really grew up and, uh, you know, we were speaking a little bit about this before we recorded, but I grew up on the, on the laps of Holocaust survivors.

And one of my family origin stories that is obviously very powerful and, and and tragic, is that my great grandparents had to send their kids off on a train, uh, to England to save their lives. So they arrived as penniless refugees and, and immigrants and, um, and they had to stand at that train station and say goodbye to their kids and knowing that they would unlikely ever see them again. And they didn’t. They were killed in the Holocaust.

Um, that story is so powerful for me on a day-to-day basis when my kids are [01:01:00] tantrumming and throwing things across the room and I just dunno what to do with the school system and, you know, whatever it is, I’m just like, thank God I’m not at a train station. I get the privilege of going through these challenges.

And so sometimes I know that was really heavy, but sometimes it’s a question of perspective, you know, sometimes it’s just realizing that, you know, yeah, our challenges are a challenges, but they could be so much worse. And I know that’s not such a comfort to everyone where you’re like, well, someone has it worse in the world. But it’s a comfort to me. I dunno, it works for me because it reminds me to see my challenges through the lens of gratitude, that, that at least I get to do this. You know, I hope I don’t mess it up, but at least I get to try.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, no, it’s a, it’s a perspective. I offered the same thing to my dad at some point, and I said, think about it. You came from Hungarian Holocaust survivors that shouldn’t have even survived. Uh, you

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: three fourths of the Hungarian population of Jews were wiped out in a very short time. And here you sit in Houston, [01:02:00] Texas of all places, surrounded by your kids and their kids, and a family that spends, you know, like many moments together, holidays together. Like you are a rich man in that.

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: You shouldn’t even exist. Your life in and of itself is a small miracle or a big miracle. And he was like, you know, he doesn’t like to talk about things or deep things.

Avital Schreiber: Mm-hmm.

Randi Rubenstein: And he’s like, my life is a miracle, huh? And I’m like, perspective. That’s

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: I’m glad you went there because I think, that, and I think that also ties back to we are connected to something bigger than ourselves that came before we ever even existed. And having appreciation and gratitude for that does keep the hard moments and days in perspective.

So, 

Avital Schreiber: Yeah.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Well thank you so much. This was so fun. I could talk to you all day. I appreciate you being here. And thanks [01:03:00] everyone for listening.

Avital Schreiber: Thank you so much, Randi.

Randi Rubenstein: Bye everyone!

 Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.

And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging with you live [01:04:00] to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys. 

So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, super appreciative.