334: How a Dedicated Dad Helped His Son Transcend A Diagnosis (with Leland Vittert)

[00:00:00] Leland Vittert: to me what’s been most important is all the emails I’ve gotten from families just saying how much has helped them and how it’s proven they’re not alone, and how many parents are now reading it and talking about it together, as what they can do and how, they can try and do some of the things for their kid that my dad did for me.

[00:00:17] Veteran TV journalist, Leland Viter has communicated with millions of people about the news of the day. But as a child, he struggled with conversations and social cues that seemed natural to other kids.

[00:00:28] Leland Vittert: In Born Lucky You, you see this and you hear this is his voice of saying not, oh my God, you’re so wonderful.

[00:00:37] You’re perfect. It’s everybody else’s problem. It’s his thought of, yes, I know things are very hard for you right now. But I’m going to hold your hand through this adversity. This is me walking with you. 

[00:00:52] In his new book, born Lucky, he shares the inspiring story of his father’s dedication to helping him transcend the societal expectations of an autism diagnosis.

[00:01:01] Leland Vittert: I think that’s what’s resonated with so many people is that the rawness and the pain but if it can help people and if it can help show parents that they’re not alone and that there is hope, then it’s worth it.

[00:01:13] Randi Rubenstein: My name is Randi Rubenstein, and welcome to the Mastermind Parenting Podcast. At Mastermind Parenting, we’re on a mission to support strong-willed kids and the families that love them. 

[00:01:23] Hi everyone. Welcome back to the show. I’m really excited about today’s conversation. I’m joined by Leland Vittert, who you probably know as the anchor of On Balance on News Nation Weeknights. He’s got a new book out that tells a story that most people up until now haven’t really known about you. It’s called Born Lucky. 

[00:01:46] Leland Vittert: The title was, Born Lucky, a Dedicated Father, a Grateful Son, my Journey with Autism, and we obviously have the, lo label right back there. I think what we’ve found over the past five weeks since the book’s come out is that this is hope for every parent of a kid having a hard time.

[00:02:08] Doesn’t matter why the kid’s having a hard time, doesn’t matter why the parent’s having a hard time. Born Lucky is really hope for them and it is the power and proof of the power of what great parenting can do. Randi, and I know that, you talk about how to become great parents, mastermind Parenting, and this is proof of what that effort and what you’re coaching people to do can actually achieve.

[00:02:34] Randi Rubenstein: You writing this story, I really, I, saying before we even started recording, I just feel like it’s a gift because, I think there’s so many of us who, I felt like I was there with your parents when you talked about that, that at, when you were five years old and you were in that, evaluator’s office, like if you would tell a little bit about that.

[00:03:00] Leland Vittert: Yeah, I think it’s, amazing how much that story’s resonated because it’s every parent who has a kid who is having a hard time has been there. Right? so when I was, I guess 5, 6, 7, my parents were told they needed to have their son me evaluated. Worst words parents can hear. 

[00:03:19] So they take me to one of those medical office buildings. I’m in, the waiting room with the linoleum floors and the old magazines and the stale coffee and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and my parents are sitting there for a couple of hours. They’re nervous as any parent would be. And they bring me back, and the woman pulls my parents into a little conference room, probably me too. ‘Cause I was in some ways a mini adult. I could understand and comprehend things. 

[00:03:46] And at this point, remember I hadn’t talked till I was three, so there was clearly some issues. And this woman says, boy, we got a lot going on here. Your son’s got a lot of problems. big behavioral problems, play dates, any kind of, birthday parties, any of that stuff wasn’t, anywhere even possible. If I was in line at school with somebody and they, touched me, I would turn around and slug them. It was really my, my behavior was, totally outside the Overton window. Big sensory issues. If, I had a jacket or a pair of socks or something on I didn’t like, I would just melt down.

[00:04:27] And then there was. Big learning issues. So, as IQ test is the average of two halves of the test. 20 point spread is a learning disability between the two halves. I had a 70 point spread, so they said to me, and my parents, it is very difficult to understand what is going on inside his head.

[00:04:51] Now my mother and my wife would probably both say, it’s still difficult to understand what’s going on inside my head, especially my wife. But she said it’s very difficult to understand what’s going on inside his head. So, with that my dad asked what any parent would ask, which is, okay, what do we do?

[00:05:11] And she goes, there’s not much you can do. And he goes, is there anything we can do? And my father at the time was a highly successful entrepreneur, had been used to bending the world to his will, and now all of a sudden he’s told there’s really no hope for his son. So you could imagine how helpless they felt, how helpless they felt, how powerless they felt, which is what we’re learning is how many parents feel that way and how alone they feel and how difficult, all this is.

[00:05:40] And Randi, I’ll give you the full circle at the very beginning, my dad was extraordinarily resonant to write this story, right? This is the story of him adapting me to the world rather than the world to me. And inside Born Lucky is some of the darkest, most awful times of my life. It is horrible. These are stories I never told my parents, never told anyone I had autism, ever. no teachers, no counselors, no therapists, nothing. 

[00:06:08] So this all comes full circle, right? Because. My dad, as we started to write this, would adjudicate every story. Do you really wanna tell that? Do you really wanna tell this? Should we tell that story? On and on and I finally said, dad, look, why don’t we do this? You tell me as much as you can remember, be as raw as you can. I’m gonna write the manuscript. And at the end of all of this, if you don’t wanna turn in the manuscript to Harper Collins, I won’t do it. He says, all right. 

[00:06:38] So book’s due on a Friday. On a Wednesday. I give him the manuscript. On Thursday, he calls me and he says, I don’t know about this. I, can’t do this. I can’t tell you this. Can’t, we can’t tell all these stories publicly. I said, okay. I have to give Harper Collins 60,000 words, the next day. 

[00:06:58] And I said to my dad, well, let’s look at it a different way. I said, if, in that evaluation room, when that woman had said there was really no hope and you were really powerless. Instead, she had given you Born Lucky and said, this isn’t a prescription, this isn’t a cure. This is just a story of a father and a son.

[00:07:19] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:20] Leland Vittert: What would you have done? And he said, I would’ve read it every week because it would prove to me that there is hope.

[00:07:29] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:30] Leland Vittert: And I said, well, I think that’s your answer. That’s why we have to do this. And he said, okay. And we turned it in. 

[00:07:36] And the thing that, everybody likes to talk is, with books about book sales and numbers and everything else, to me what’s been most important is all the emails I’ve gotten from families just saying how much has helped them and how it’s proven they’re not alone, and how many parents are now reading it and talking about it together, as what they can do and how, they can try and do some of the things for their kid that my dad did for me.

[00:08:02] Randi Rubenstein: I think tapping into the hope is the thing that hooked me in right away. I think if I think about the fears, people who come to me have strong-willed kids. And that’s the language that we use because that’s the behavior that’s being displayed. 

[00:08:22] No one wants to speak badly about their kids or to call them difficult or the problem child, or, or worry that there’s something wrong with them. But you know ifyou have your kid at the birthday party who’s, who you’re trying to watch like you have eyes in the back of your head. If you have the kid, you know if you have the kid that every play date turns into a disaster, and you’re thinking, why is everyone else’s kid easy? Why is my kid like this? 

[00:08:55] And it’s a lot of anxiety for parents when you have a kid that is wired differently because you ultimately are worried like. What’s gonna, like, what is their life gonna look like? What will the future hold? What if there is something wrong with my kid? 

[00:09:11] And I think the fact that like, you’re a successful guy, you’re on tv, you’ve got your own show, like you’ve had this whole big career. And I think it’s like, okay, where you are at this point in your life to go back and to dig into these painful stories, and for your dad, also your mom and dad to dig into these painful stories when they are a part of the past, in an effort to give other parents who are walking in the shoes that your parents have walked in and you’ve walked in and other kids, other families. I just have to acknowledge that’s an incredibly generous act.

[00:09:54] Leland Vittert: No thank you. I really wanted to put these stories down for my dad, so I think he could understand that I understood what the sacrifice was. he gave up his career, and in his words, not at the time, but as I interviewed him later, he said, I, didn’t know how it was gonna end up, but I knew that I was your only hope. Like I knew that I was gonna be your only friend. I was gonna be your only protector. And for there to, for you to have a chance, I had to do this. So that kind of is the way it all worked, is. 

[00:10:39] And I think also parents don’t acknowledge how hard it is on themselves. when, when I was going through grade school and middle school, and we’ll get into some of the, more sort of deeper bullying stories, right? But I went through five or six, maybe seven schools, so you know, every day I would come home, emotionally tortured. Isolated, sometimes beat up, just in this really awful sense. My dad was there every day at four 20. 

[00:11:08] And one day in particular, I remember right, in eighth grade, the art teacher didn’t think I was gonna become Picasso. And he said in front of the entire class, Vittert, if my dog was as ugly as you, I would shave its ass and make it walk backwards. For the entire class. So, and you can imagine if the teachers are doing that, what the kids are doing. So I go home that night, just shattered as I was every night. And walk across the street. I talk to my dad, we spend a few hours together in my room. It’s now dark. I either had homework to do or I just would go to sleep. 

[00:11:46] And I didn’t know this until I interviewed my dad for the book, but a lot of times he would come downstairs, by himself in the dark, in the living room. And just start crying. And then my mom would come out and find him at midnight or one or two o’clock in the morning. So a big part of this was writing a book and the story to show my dad that I understood as best I could. ’cause I don’t have kids about Rachel. And I just got married, to show my dad that I at least understood the sacrifice, as best I could.

[00:12:24] Randi Rubenstein: When you, and your dad went back into the stories of when you were first getting evaluated, did they explain, were they able to like really remember and explain to you, like, and did you remember what it felt like to, if somebody touched you to be that

[00:12:46] Leland Vittert: Yeah. It still, does. Yeah. And, I think what’s really important about this, right? And, once I got this diagnosis and, or a couple diagnosis, my parents didn’t tell anybody. There was no extra time on tests. There was no behavior modification plans, there was none of these, whatever the, numbers and the letters and everything else are these days. 

[00:13:06] And I don’t, say that to be making fun of it. It just, it wasn’t my world. The, my, my parents just said, you know this, he’s gonna have to work in the real world. And the sooner he starts doing that with no accommodations, the easier it’s gonna be for him, or it’s just not gonna work. So that’s what they did. 

[00:13:27] But I think it’s really easy to, to fall into this trap or idea or whatever it is that, okay, Born Lucky is this cure. It’s a prescription of like, how do you turn your autistic kid into a news anchor? No. And I think people have said to me, oh, your dad cured your autism. No.

[00:13:45] Randi Rubenstein: No. 

[00:13:47] Leland Vittert: what my dad did was he taught me how to overcome and to be disciplined and to focus on things I can control. Put whatever sort of frame around it you want. But one of the things, one of the best things about not knowing that I had autism was that because they didn’t tell me till I was 20 or 25, is I couldn’t use it as an excuse. Right? 

[00:14:14] And I write in the book how it’s an every day, every hour by hour discipline, and people have come up to me since the book’s come out and go, I had no idea. And my first response is, well, number one, you don’t know me very well. number two, my dad has done an enormous amount of work. And number three, and most of all, it’s a learned discipline.

[00:14:38] I give the example of a couple of months ago, I was at my father-in-law’s golf club, playing golf with him, and we get done playing golf. Wonderful round, played with another couple people. And one of the classic characteristics of autism is you become really task focused, right? You can be hyper task oriented. And the task at the hand was, packing my golf bag because I was running late. 

[00:15:02] So I’m next to the carts and I’m trying to shove this golf bag into a travel bag, which is in and of itself a very frustrating thing, especially when you’re running late. And the gentleman we play golf with walks over. So he’s standing above me, looking down on me, and he goes, Hey, so, so great to play with you. And I go, huh. And I’m like, stuffing the golf bag in. And he goes, Leland tries to talk to me again. Uhhuh stuffing the golf bag in. And at that moment, we’re all in our golf clubs, we’re all at this golf club. I go from being 43 or 42 at the time to being like, back as an 8-year-old, I couldn’t help myself. 

[00:15:39] And I could hear the voice in my head from my father. Okay, Lucky. You need to stop what you’re doing. Stop what you’re doing. Stand up, look whoever it is in the eye, talk to him. Like ask him about himself. Like, these were these very basic role plays that my dad and I did over and over again. And I just, I couldn’t help myself. And the guy finally walked away.

[00:16:06] I was so rude to when we walked away and I thought to myself, God damn it, Lucky you. Just like, oh, it was just so frustrating. And. I couldn’t believe it at 43 years old that I couldn’t help myself. So I sent him a note and I said, afterwards I got his phone number. I sent him a note and I said, I just wanna tell you how sorry I am. I was so rude to you, had really absolutely no excuse. I really apologize. so much enjoyed meeting you and, wish you all the best or something. 

[00:16:37] And I did not include, which would’ve been the obvious next line, oh, by the way, I have autism. Right. Oh, oh, well, that was my autism. That’s just who I am, that’s not how I was taught or how I was allowed to act.

[00:16:56] Randi Rubenstein: Well. I would say what your dad did, it sounds like is, and from the stories in the book, look, people who you know, and I know you don’t like all the lingo and I, I’m not a lover of labels either. I dance that fine line of it can be good to know what we’re dealing with and there are resources and I wanna know, I wanted to study each of my kids and understand how they were wired, because I’m like, we’re human. Four-leaf clovers and important to know how, maybe you’re more of a hands-on learner and maybe you’re more of a visual learner. 

[00:17:36] It’s, and like, so I studied all of my kids, I would say, kids that are somewhere on whether it’s autistic, whether it’s ADHD, that’s neurodivergence. Okay. Somewhere. And to me, the way I explain that or talk about it is, and the way I even talked about it to my own kids is, we all have a nervous system. Some of us have nervous systems that are a little more sensitive than others, which means that you probably have a strong intuition. You, people don’t even have to speak sometimes you, can feel their energy. 

[00:18:15] Like my, especially my son, he knew good person from bad person from the, when he was a little kid. Sometimes I see in too much gray, like he could tell me this adult, they changed their voice when they’re around adults, they talk different when they’re around kids. Like he could pinpoint those things and he was like a little Yoda in the way that he just knew, he just knew and I knew that he knew. 

[00:18:44] But what I think your dad did is he picked up where you had some lagging skills, especially lagging social skills. and he worked with you on those things at home. And so you know the guy who comes up to you and is trying to talk to you when you’re clearly frustrated as two adults and he keeps trying to talk to you and I’m wondering if that guy wasn’t on the spectrum because he, because frankly he’s not reading the room. when someone’s frustrated, when they’re in the middle of it, 

[00:19:21] Leland Vittert: I hear you. Call it whatever you want. there’s a lot of term, two terms, right? the standard is the standard, to coach, quote the, coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers. So that’s just how, I’ve always been raised and that was my dad’s real bedrock principles.

[00:19:41] Born Lucky is really, as I’ve said it, first and foremost, a love letter to my dad, and there were two things my dad always taught me I could control, right? Because he knew starting when I was five or six that I wasn’t gonna be good at school. I wasn’t gonna have friends. I wasn’t gonna be good at athletics. So the three things that every kid normally derive self-esteem from were not options for me. So he had to figure out a way to give me self-esteem, to let me earn self-esteem, because self-esteem is not given, it’s earned. So how do I get my kid to, to earn self-esteem? 

[00:20:20] So it started with 200 pushups a day. Five days a week, you do that, you get some something in return. And the whole point of this is, I, I figured out with my dad is, find things to give me pride in, find things that I could succeed at, find things that I could accomplish. And, the rest of that dot is that, he wanted me to adapt the best I could socially.

[00:20:50] But he also knew that there were only two things I could really control. I could control my work ethic, how hard I worked and my character. And those were the two things that were non-negotiable, that I, and I think there’s a very interesting part of Born Lucky that there’s some very old school principles, that come through, from my father that were really fundamental in, in how. The story was able to develop how I was able to develop.

[00:21:24] Randi Rubenstein: The sending the email afterwards, okay, so that’s to me, sending the email to the guy and saying, Hey, I’m really sorry. I was so rude to you. Owning it that, that seems like that was just part of your dad’s conditioning and your mom’s probably too like, like when you make a mistake, own it and apologize. And to me that is what you’re talking about there in terms of character. And, and when you’re raised with that kind of conditioning, I’ve seen it with my kids on certain things. It’s like, of course it’s not a big deal. This is just what you do. You apologize for the mistake and, you just own it. 

[00:22:09] But there are people who will never apologize and never do that. That is way too vulnerable. There are so many people that, that is like the, that’s not an act that they’re interested in doing. So I will, I would love for you to, to talk about that story of how you wanted to go start going with your dad, ’cause you didn’t have any social outlets, so you and your dad, would leave and, go with his friends to a meal and you wanted to go with him and, how your dad handled, right? Like, I

[00:22:47] Leland Vittert: Yeah. No, this is the fundamental idea of the, coaching. And it’s interesting, the story you’re asking me to tell is my dad tapping my watch. Right? And the, interest in this story. It, I don’t wanna say it was a, it was a minor part of the book. These people have found it to be really important, but it’s not of all the stories, it’s not the one that I would’ve thought people would’ve so attached to, but it has been, and I’m glad people have found such interest in it. So, as I was 7, 8, 9 years old, 

[00:23:21] Randi Rubenstein: Let me pause you for a second because people, when they are, they have been without hope, and now all of a sudden, here’s this story of hope and here is a very practical, tactical tip. This is something that everyone can do. And so it’s a skill. Like we can talk about these concepts, oh, these kinds of kids have, lagging skills socially, so you should really coach them. But it’s different to give a very clear example. So I

[00:23:50] Leland Vittert: Well, I think it’s a good, it’s a great point. somebody who’s not a parent wouldn’t pick up on that. Born Lucky is a parenting book written by a kid, which makes it a little different. So the watch tap story is this, that as I was a little, as I was 6, 7, 8, 9, the only person I spent time with was my dad. 

[00:24:11] So, as I began to talk about things, I was a mini adult. I was a mini me, at eight years old. I could very intelligently, talk about, 8, 9, 10. I could very, in terms of the years, I could talk about the Gulf War. I could talk about Bush v Dukakis. I could talk about Bush v Clinton. Because my dad wasn’t really into sports. He was into news, politics, and business. That’s all we talked about. For hours, upon hours. We had breakfast every day, and this was his only way, as he said, he said, I knew I was gonna be your only friend, so I had to give you that safe, feeling and have conversations and interact in those hours of the day that you could, ’cause when you went off to school and, his words and my mom’s words, you were going off to battle every day.

[00:25:03] So I was this little mini me in certain ways. It was. So my dad would bring me along to either dinners with him or lunches with him or whatever, and whoever we were going to meet normally was a pretty interesting person. My dad had a lot of very interesting friends, has still, and when I would, he said, look, he said, you can come, but when I tap my watch, you have to stop talking. Fine. 

[00:25:32] So we’d go to a lunch and before we could even sit down, I would just be badgering the hell out of whoever. Was there about whatever, it was, didn’t matter if they were a lawyer, if they were a doctor, if they were in the media. I was just hammering them with questions and interrupting and changing the topic of conversation. All, these things. So you can imagine a little kid doing that and it, the, people, some of ’em would go along with it, but it, was clearly very socially offputting. And my dad would then tap his watch. 

[00:26:05] So he would say, okay. tap my watch. Two things. One is to bookmark this moment. The other thing is to stop talking as we discussed. So now we’re driving back from the little diner where we had, milkshakes and cheeseburgers or whatever, and he can say, okay, so when Ms. Rubenstein was talking about, her son’s job and you interrupted to ask her about how she books her podcast. Why did you think that’s what she wanted to talk about?

[00:26:38] I don’t know, dad. That seemed interesting to me. Okay, well, what could you have asked her about her son? Okay, let’s think about that. And then we would role play that conversation, and then we would go through almost like watching game film, that whole hour and 15 minute lunch over milkshakes and cheeseburgers.

[00:26:58] And this would go on every day, multiple times a day. And it was his way. It was his way of actually teaching me, ’cause what, not only did I have problems learning, social interaction, social cues, but I was actively offputting and bad at it, right? So he had to unwire and convince me that everything I was feeling was wrong and everything that he needed to teach me was right.

[00:27:28] Randi Rubenstein: mm-hmm. And like what made you buy in? Because I have so, because so often parents are like, okay, I wanna have these conversations with my kids and I teach this whole way to have a productive conversation. They’re like, but they shut me down. They shut me down. They shut me down. So I am curious from your viewpoint, what made you not shut your dad down? Why were you active in these conversations?

[00:27:55] Leland Vittert: I’ve tried to think about that as a great question. and it’s not to say that, my father and I have not had some knockdown drag out fights, especially as I’ve gotten older. and we don’t always see eye iron things. We still are best friends. We still talk. I know why is it we’re recording this at three 30 in the afternoon and I probably talked to him two or three times today. and I’ll talk to him to say Good night tonight. But the, the thing I think was number one, I could see and sense that what I was doing wasn’t working 

[00:28:33] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. 

[00:28:34] Leland Vittert: And he made it clear that he understood that and he felt deep compassion for it. And he understood how unfair it was and he understood how awful it was. And he let me express all that. And then basically he said, but I am going to help you understand how to overcome this. 

[00:28:57] And, the other thing I think that’s really important here and in Born Lucky You, you see this and you hear this is his voice of saying not, oh my God, you’re so wonderful. You’re perfect. It’s everybody else’s problem. It’s his thought of, yes, I know things are very hard for you right now. And they were certainly in school. And even after school, but I’m going to hold your hand through this adversity. This is me walking with you. Right. And so I trusted him. I didn’t really have a choice because it was, he was all I had, but that was really important, and I think an important part of the story.

[00:29:42] Randi Rubenstein: You, you did have a choice. I think you just got to it.

[00:29:47] Leland Vittert: Well, I didn’t have a choice in the sense that I knew it was my only chance, right? I knew what I was doing wasn’t working, and I knew that he would do anything for me. So I knew that was my, only choice if I wanted to change and grow was what he was teaching me.

[00:30:10] Randi Rubenstein: Well, and you trusted him, right? Like.

[00:30:13] Leland Vittert: Well that’s, if we wanna go deep in the stories, that’s the tree story. which I think is really a good moment in the book. So, in Born Lucky, I’m five years old and we’re over at my grandparents’ yard, which, big front lawn outside of a house, on this lake in northern Michigan. And huge trees, trees that were 200 years old. And about six feet up one of the trees, or five and a half feet up, one of the trees in their house or in their lawn, was this tree that had a big notch cut out of it. So you could actually, if you were little, like I was, you could stand on the notch. 

[00:30:52] So my dad lifts me up and he puts me up on the notch. So I’m standing on the notch, about five and a half feet tall, five and a half feet up. Looking down. Might as well have been looking into the Grand Canyon. And my dad takes a step back and he puts his arms out. He says, okay, do you trust me? And I said, of course I trust you, dad. He goes, great, jump into my arms. So I jump and he catches me and he goes, I’ll always trust you. And I go, oh, I love you, dad. Or whatever I said, don’t think anything much of it. Obviously it would become a metaphor for all of Born Lucky, right? For this whole book. 

[00:31:26] But the next part I think that was really interesting was the reason he did that is one of his other, fr one of his friends who’s a little bit older. very successful guy, had told my dad to do that, except he told him to do what this man had done with his son, which he put his son up on a fireplace mantle and had him jump and didn’t catch him. And as the kid is like wailing in pain on the ground, this other gentleman looked at the kid and said, don’t ever trust anybody at his son.

[00:31:55] So two types of parenting. Obviously the Born Lucky story is that my dad always caught me and that I always trusted him.

[00:32:06] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. Yeah. when I’m coaching parents on how do you actually, they’re like, but how do I get them to. Be willing to problem solve with me, to be willing to, and I’m like, well, you have to earn, you have to earn their trust. And, and so, and it’s not just in one conversation, it’s through a lot of small actions over time.

[00:32:35] And when your kids know that you’ve got their back, like your example of every single day, your dad waiting there at four 20 and I felt like I was there with you and your sister walking home from school quite often. You were in tears. You’re her older brother by six years. So that probably, I’m imagining was even a bit humiliating that you’re the big brother and you’re, she’s holding your hand

[00:33:05] Leland Vittert: It is funny. I don’t, I didn’t remember that. And look, you talk about the neuropsychology of it, there was a lot of these things that I had chosen to, forgot or forget, but as I’m, we’re starting to work on Born Lucky. And I asked my sister, what’s the earliest memory you have of me, of your brother?

[00:33:24] And she says, oh, that’s easy. Okay. And she says, we were at the same elementary school together. I was in fifth grade and my sister was in kindergarten. And sh it turns out this was in the, this was one of the many schools I got pulled out of in the middle of the school year, but. She, said, my first memory of you was you would come every day from your fifth grade classroom to my kindergarten classroom, and then you would walk me home because we would walk home.

[00:33:54] It was about a half a mile through the woods, behind the school. So we would walk through the PE fields to the woods, and she said every day when we got to the woods, to the path that led to our house, you’d start crying every day. And she goes, my first memory of my brother is holding his hand is, he walked home sobbing.

[00:34:15] And if you see pictures, there’s some pictures, that we have, of my little sister at, six years old and me, and it’s always who she is and has been, which is wonderful. and I think part of Born and Lucky also is a message for siblings of kids who are really having a hard time and how tough it is on the sibling.

[00:34:35] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. 

[00:34:36] Leland Vittert: And my mother, and father never told Liberty, Hey, your son brother has autism. She asked my parents why, and she and my mom said, because we never wanted you to see your brother as something different than just your brother. So it’s been, it, as you point out in terms of like protecting your kid. There was a lot of times I got in a lot of trouble. I used to say to my mother that when I grow up, I’m gonna have a round house so there’s not a corner that I can be sent to, but against the world it was us as a family against the 

[00:35:15] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. 

[00:35:16] Leland Vittert: I knew they would always protect me no matter what, and no matter what I had done, and no matter what the situation was, they would trust me. They would protect me to the rest of the world.

[00:35:27] Randi Rubenstein: Well, what I wanna say there is, you can go out, all we want is for our kids to go out in the world and make a friend and find a sense of belonging. Right, because it sucks, like every day at school to feel like you don’t belong, to feel other, like it feel, you’ve lived that life. It feels super shitty. I, think the, this point is you always had a sense of true belonging where it mattered the most at home.

[00:36:02] Leland Vittert: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:03] Randi Rubenstein: And I think, so many families who are struggling with this and instead of your dad, the dad being out there at four 20, receiving your kid home who’s having a neuro crash many days.

[00:36:18] Right. Like it, the whole, like you said, a lot of days on the driveway you were taking out what happened during the day? I’m imagining probably yelling at your dad, maybe some volatility like. It’s hard to be the recipient of that and not to get activated yourself and then to start shaming and blaming and being volatile right back. So 

[00:36:42] Leland Vittert: Yeah, I think there was, he, wrote in the afterward, right, which I think is the best part of the book, the best four pages. You are the depository of their hurt, their frustration, and their humiliations. You must listen and listen morning before school and late into the night, which he definitely did now, and I, think it’s important.

[00:37:02] That’s not to say, he didn’t say, what can you do about it? Right. This, there was never a victimhood of, oh, woe is me. Oh, on and on there, there was a lot of, as I said, he, it clear like we’re walking this path together, but we’re walking it. and there were a lot of.

[00:37:30] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. It’s clear to me just by the way you handled that golf story as an adult, like that was, is almost like that was in the water you were drinking at home. We’re walking this, we’re like, I’m not letting you off the hook, but I don’t have to tear you down and, shame and blame and make you feel even crappier. I’m gonna. I’m gonna help you to be accountable and I am going to be here. 

[00:37:54] That’s what I mean by that sense of belonging. I think because so many parents don’t know, don’t for whatever reason, aren’t able to show up for their kids in this. In similar situations, the way your parents were able to show up for you, the kids don’t have a sense of belonging out in the world, and they don’t have a sense of belonging at home, and that becomes a very angry shutdown child.

[00:38:20] Leland Vittert: Yeah. Yeah. I, I keep coming back to, and, the title of the book is Born Lucky ’cause my nickname’s Lucky, because I’m lucky to be alive when I was born. But I ended by saying I realize how lucky I am. Right? And, lucky to have parents who stayed together, as my dad noted in the afterward, that my mother is really the un unsung hero of the book, and of my life and of my story. Lucky to have parents who were in a position to dedicate themselves in the way they did to me. Lucky to have a father who really understands the human equation, whose EQ is about the temperature of the sun. So all of those things we were instrumental in.

[00:39:08] Randi Rubenstein: And so, okay, so if we can Shift gears a tiny bit. ’cause I do, you’ve had a really impressive, career and so I would love to hear from you if you feel like, there has been an autism advantage in some way. I don’t know, like, just in terms of how, 

[00:39:32] Leland Vittert: is a great, it’s a great, it’s a great question. I would say, I don’t know, because I don’t know my life without autism. Right. it’s, not like, it’s weird. I’ve compared growing up with autism and now trying to be disciplined every day and how I approach things a little bit to alcoholism. Like, you have to work at it every day. You’re never really cured. 

[00:40:00] But the flip side is like if you’re an alcoholic, like, gee, when I’m drinking, it’s awful. And I’m a drunk, and when I’m not drinking, I can do all these things. With autism, I don’t, it’s not like I, I know any different, it’s not, I haven’t spent a day where I don’t feel autistic and therefore it’s like, oh, well yes, that would be much better.

[00:40:23] Now the flip side of it, and, this is where I have a real problem, just in today’s conversation with the, this whole idea that we sh that we just need to celebrate everybody’s weirdness. And if you talk about it as something that needs to be addressed or can be course corrected, then somehow you’re not celebrating the person. Right? 

[00:40:48] And if my wife was pregnant right now and I was given a choice and a piece of paper to say, my child will be autistic or not, I would choose not.

[00:40:59] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. 

[00:40:59] Leland Vittert: a thousand out of a thousand times. And, I, the book isn’t political. I’m not political about it, but I am just so happy now that the rise in cases of autism is the scientific question of our time, and that we’re now finally talking about how to prevent more families from going through what my family and what I went through and acknowledging that there’s a lot of families who have it a lot worse.

[00:41:29] There’s a huge number of families for whom you know their children. their, they will, their, the parents will never hear their, kids say, I love you dad, or Good morning mom, or any of those things. That’s soul crushing. 

[00:41:42] Now there’s, there are parents who’ve dedicated their lives to those kid children. There’s parents who have done so much to celebrate them, they’re, on and on. But I think we can all acknowledge, look, if we can reverse this rise in the cases of autism. Figure out why it’s happening and help kids not, become autistic. then I think we should.

[00:42:08] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, I think there’s a lot of study. That needs to happen. personally, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of or read a book called NeuroTribes, but it was, it’s a really, it’s not an easy read, but it’s really interesting about just the history of neurodiversity. And it was, I think it was a New York Times journalist who wrote it, who was noticing that, they were doing some feature in Silicon Valley, and they were going to all these different homes and interviewing, and it was like home after home. The parents were saying, well, I have an autistic child, so you may notice that if all of a sudden they come in and they do something weird or they do, they’re screaming or just.

[00:42:55] Don’t be alarmed. Just wanted you to know. and so this prompted this journalist to write this book NeuroTribes, and it talks about how there’s always been neurodiversity. I think I was, really interested in your story because I think, autistic, the autistic population, it is a spectrum and so, people that are. on the spectrum where you are, which is, I don’t necessarily seem autistic. I know how to, I know how to make it in the mainstream world. And so I think a lot of times it can be really confusing for kids. It can be because it’s like, if it’s, a, if it’s a kid who is more stereotypically different, 

[00:43:50] Leland Vittert: I was.

[00:43:52] Randi Rubenstein: Were you?,

[00:43:54] Leland Vittert: Oh yeah. 

[00:43:55] Randi Rubenstein: You look, I loved the part where you talked about like walking around with your, so your socks rolled down because of the sensory stuff. But I’m sure other kids looked at you with the socks rolled down and were like, why are you wearing your socks? So weird.

[00:44:09] Leland Vittert: No, I think if you, yeah, there’s no question that, when I was much younger, and really before my parents started really trying to course correct, that I was observably very different. Like, it was not it was a, oh, I mean I, how hard was it to see that Lucky was different, like look at your thumb.

[00:44:33] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:34] Leland Vittert: Like it was pretty, apparent.

[00:44:37] Randi Rubenstein: Mm-hmm. 

[00:44:39] Leland Vittert: Now I was verbal and I could make eye contact at times and all that, but it, it was a fairly obvious situation that things were really wrong. To your point though, back then, autism was known as what, is what we now know to be profound autism, right? Autism is like, those sort of profound level three, whatever you wanna call it, cases. And that was, that’s, I was not that, but I was observably very autistic.

[00:45:10] Randi Rubenstein: And so, and so would you say that you learned what they, I know that this is a controversial topic, but would you say that you essentially learned to mask,

[00:45:24] Leland Vittert: Yeah, I’m people and, forgive me when, we wrote, when we were writing Born Lucky and the book proposal went out to Harper Collins and to a bunch of other publishers, they kept asking for comparable books. And they said, that this is an autism book. And they would send me autism books and they say, every chapter needs three lessons and four takeaways in these how-to moments and all this other kind of stuff. And I said, I’m nowhere near qualified to write an autism book. I said, 

[00:45:55] Randi Rubenstein: I am glad you didn’t. I’m glad 

[00:45:57] Leland Vittert: I said, I’m, I said I’m, this isn’t an autism book. This is a father, son love story. I and, then now that the book’s come out and for whatever success it is in notoriety is gained, people are going, well, I, feel like there’s this, and I’ve learned, now I should say that there’s this whole part of the autism community that says, well, we should teach kids to mask their autism, or we should celebrate the kids who do not mask their autism.

[00:46:25] Like I, I. All I can say is what worked for me and for my family, and that if my father didn’t work for years and years, day in, day out, for me to learn to behave in a way that was socially acceptable and within the Overton window of what the world views as socially acceptable, I wouldn’t be where I am right now. So if he had let, if he had let me be who I was, let him be him, meet me where I’m at, those kinds of phrases, I, would not be who I am today. 

[00:47:08] Randi Rubenstein: Well, it’s also, yeah, I mean it was also like the things he was doing, the role playing, to me that’s like basic civility and right, and, like we are. human beings are pack animals. We’re meant to know how to get along with other people. So if your kid is badgering people and not reading the room and not knowing when to stop asking questions, like to role play that and to do it in a way that your kid can actually receive the, learning. it seems obvious, but I don’t think it’s the norm, unfortunately. And I think that was just brilliant that your dad did that. And, yeah, I mean there’s so much, I applaud your dad, but I think what I was getting at in terms of the career, like. Just the hyper focus, like if you could say a little bit more about like, you’ve been in some pretty sticky situations and in a very intense job.

[00:48:07] Like, do you feel like, did you notice when it, with any of your colleagues or people would maybe just get burnout about things that kind of lit you up or that I don’t know. I’m a little curious about that. If you’ve

[00:48:22] Leland Vittert: I, I, call it what you want. One time somebody nicknamed me when I was a little boy Relentless. And, in sure like, I’ve, I have that, to use the cliche dog with a bone ability, but I, is that because I’m autistic? I don’t know. 

[00:48:45] My dad taught me at a young age, you just outwork everybody, and, in Born Lucky, there’s where that comes from, which is, when my dad started his first business, he made 106 unsuccessful sales calls. He was closing his business down. He was gonna be a failure. And he got out of town. Left town ’cause he was so embarrassed ’cause he didn’t have anything else to do and he made his hundred seventh sales call ’cause he just wouldn’t quit. And that’s what saved his business and sent him off on enormous success. So, did I learn it that from that or did I learn it because I was autistic or did I learn it because of a combination of the two? I, don’t know. 

[00:49:27] I had a couple of kids in my office yesterday, kids, college kids who want to get into journalism. And the person who brought them in goes, what’s your advice? And I said, say yes. And the person, what do you mean? What’s, they, were thinking it was gonna be some great, thing about, being a reporter. And I said, success is about showing up and working harder than everybody else will. And whatever success I’ve enjoyed in journalism a lot, it’s become, ’cause I said yes. 

[00:49:56] Because producers and assignment editors and newsroom managers are lazy. And if you were always the reporter that would say yes when they called, answer your phone and then say yes to working extra and coming in early and leaving late, and everything else, if you said yes to the really crummy stuff, naturally when good things came up, you know when big stories or big opportunities came up, they would call you first ’cause they knew you’d say yes.

[00:50:20] So it was pretty easy. It’s not hard. And I think about, and I hate being the person who’s going, oh, with kids these days, but there’s a lot of people that I work with that you ask them to do something more, something extra, and you give them that opportunity as a young person, oh no, I’m busy. Oh no, I can’t, oh, that, my shift doesn’t start till this time. Okay. that has nothing to do with whether you’re autistic or not.

[00:50:49] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, I completely agree with that, and I think, look, it, was also you learned how to fly, like the opportunities that you were able to pursue. learning how to fly an airplane at the age of 11, that’s a whole, that’s a whole po I am so glad you wrote this book as a series of stories and, it wasn’t a how to guide or, I, felt like there was so much teaching through sharing versus teaching through preaching.

[00:51:27] Leland Vittert: Well that we, Don Yeager, gets an enormous amount of credit for that. He’s my co-author. he actually called me to write this book, so I’ll give your. viewers, listeners, a little something that isn’t in the book, which is how the book came to be, which is I had started at News Nation as a, as an anchor.

[00:51:49] I’m now transitioning from being a reporter and weekend anchor at Fox, and I’m in prime time, and they say to me, we’d like you to meet with this coach. And I said, okay. and I started meeting with her and admittedly, it was a very. A rocky relationship and she will tell you that we both had a lot of reasons to distrust each other.

[00:52:16] we named Barbara Fida, who’s become obviously a great friend and she was listed in the acknowledgements as well. She should have been. So we’re talking one day and she’s talking to me about how on tv, in what we call the two box, which is when you’re looking at both people at the same time to try to match the energy of the person in the two box and match their emotion.

[00:52:38] And I said, okay. And I was working on it. And she, she kept talking about it. She goes, it seems really hard for you. And I said, well, it’s about the hardest thing in the world for me. And she goes, why is that? I said, well, because I’m autistic, or I have autism silence for like 30 seconds.

[00:52:59] And she goes, I’m on the phone. I go, are you there? And she goes. Did you say you were autistic? And I said, Uhhuh. And she goes, you’ve gotta be kidding me. And I said, well, no. And she goes, well, does anybody know? I said, no. She goes, you never told your bosses. And I said, I never told anybody. I never told a teacher, I never told a counselor, I’ve never been to therapy, nothing.

[00:53:27] And she asked me a little bit about the story and I, and she goes, well, have you ever written about it? And I said, well, actually. A couple years ago, I wrote about 700 words that I thought would one day maybe be an op-ed to thank my dad on Father’s Day. just like send it to the Wall Street Journal in New York Times or something.

[00:53:46] And she said, can you send it to me? And I said, yeah, sure. Whatever. I don’t care. So I, and I’m at the point in my life, I think, where I, cared less at that point and I sent it to her and she goes, this is incredible. I said. It’s just me. It’s just who I am. And about four or five weeks later, maybe six weeks later, my phone rings and it’s this guy named Don Yeager, who I had heard of but not met from, other books he’d worked on and Fox and everything else.

[00:54:20] Phenomenal writer. 12 New York Times bestsellers, sold millions upon millions of books. Great writer. And he goes, Hey, Leland, it’s Don Yeager. I wanna write your book with you. And I said, okay, why? Nice to meet you. And he said, I have a child who’s autistic and if I had these 700 words 

[00:54:48] my child was diagnosed, it would have changed my life. And I have to tell this story. 

[00:54:54] Randi Rubenstein: So beautiful. 

[00:54:55] Leland Vittert: so that’s and the showing. Not telling, not preaching, just this is my story that really came from him. And it was so important to have somebody who really would push both my dad and I, and my mom and my sister, but especially me, to really be as raw as we possibly could in these pages.

[00:55:17] Right. And I think that’s what’s resonated with so many people is that the rawness and the pain that, I’d never shared or talked about with anybody going, to therapy. As a 43-year-old on national television is not a lot of fun. but if it can help people and if it can help show parents that they’re not alone and that there is hope, then it’s worth it.

[00:55:38] Randi Rubenstein: Ugh. the, the bullying stories, and I was so glad you didn’t gloss over them, but I would imagine it was painful, it was exhausting, going back in and reliving those stories. they were horrific. And of course. The mama bear in me was wanting everyone’s addresses so I could go and hunt them all down.

[00:56:05] Leland Vittert: you’ll have to keep looking ’cause we didn’t use their 

[00:56:08] Randi Rubenstein: I know, I 

[00:56:08] Leland Vittert: And that was, it was really, I hate the word intentional, but it was, and Don and I actually had a big fight, fight about it ’cause he wanted to use their names ’cause he thought it would make it more real for people and more journalistically sound. don’t worry, I remember every name, but I wanted to make it clear to folks who read the book how. They could make such a difference in someone’s life, positively in a kid who’s having a hard time, not just a parent, but an uncle, an aunt, a grandparent, on and on, by being kind. So use the names of everybody who was kind and didn’t use the name of anybody who was mean.

[00:56:50] Randi Rubenstein: Yeah, the adults, I mean it wasn’t just kids, the adults too. no thank you, for this book. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us about it. And I’m gonna make sure and put a link in the show notes for everybody to be able to order the book ’cause I’m sure my entire audience is gonna wanna order it. And, yeah. Thanks for being here today.

[00:57:15] Leland Vittert: Thank you, Randi.

[00:57:16] Randi Rubenstein: Okay, bye everyone.

[00:57:19] Thanks for listening today, guys. I hope you picked up some tips, tools, maybe some baby steps for creating more balance and boundaries in your life. And I just wanted to let you know, if you want to continue moving the needle forward in creating this for yourself, having a happier household, I want you to go to my website and check out mastermindparenting.com. We have three beginning programs, and if you need some accountability and more support then please look for the one that would be a good fit for you.

[00:57:53] And, as always, we’re on all the social channels under Mastermind Parenting, on Instagram it’s mastermind_parenting. And, you know, periodically I do pop up on different Instagram lives, Facebook lives where I give you teaching and coaching and I love engaging with you live to help you help your strong-willed kids so that they can feel better, because when they feel better they do better, and I love, love, love getting to know you guys. 

[00:58:26] So thanks for listening. If you like this podcast, please don’t forget to subscribe, rate and review. Super, appreciative.